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FORUM / RUGBY /  Pieter-Steph: Boks’ shy new superstar

Pieter-Steph: Boks’ shy new superstar

Started by Beeno143 REPLIES3,409 VIEWS· 19 Sept 2018, 17:02
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:02
#1
19 Sept 2018, 17:02#1


Yes superstar folks as Beeno pointed out! Trust this article will shed light on the matter for the good Dr Mozzzzz.!



Cape Town - You could almost call Pieter-Steph du Toit the Springboks’ very own version of a “Twenty20” player right now.

But before any cricket-related confusion takes root, that is simply a reminder of the starkly even split between his international caps: 20 as a starter, 20 as a substitute.

Oh yes, he also sports 20 Test points, courtesy of four tries. And, er, stands 2.00 metres according to his Wikipedia profile, if you want to creatively stretch things further. (There’s a twenty in his weight, 120kg, just for cherry-on-top purposes.)

Frame those smartly-aligned statistics quickly, if you fancy … for some of them are, almost certainly, about to change dramatically.

Perhaps you shouldn’t really use one match as a definitive judgement on a player. But perhaps if it is a rare-as-hen’s-teeth victory over the All Blacks in New Zealand, you can.

For the foreseeable future at very least, the humble, spotlight-shirking – though perfectly pleasant when he does have to blink and chat in front of it – 26-year-old from the Swartland wheat and wine region of the Western Cape suddenly seems undroppable.

More than that, he has vaulted to the very top tier of most valued customers in the Bok ranks.

Supersub? No, those days look over for Pieter Stephanus du Toit, unless there are certain matches up the line against relative minnows – like in group play at the 2019 World Cup, for instance – where the Boks opt to restrict their most prized assets to possible impact presences, if necessary.

He was positively immense for the cause in Saturday’s 36-34 Wellington upset of the world champions, almost indisputably also one of the finest teams in rugby history.

It was a match where Du Toit didn’t just tick the boxes, as they say, against the very best opponents there are … he banged down his mark with the heaviest, most legible of industrial stamps.

If not already, I invite you to watch the game again (some Bok fans delightedly claim they have it on constant repeat), as I have: my only regret on second viewing was limiting my own verdict on Du Toit’s team-topping performance, a task done immediately after the Rugby Championship humdinger, to 8.5 out of 10.

Now I’d be more inclined to adjust that figure to 9, or even 9.5.

In short - and it took a more concentrated, Du Toit-specific perusal of the 80 minutes (he somehow lasted the entire duration) to come to this view - just about everything the blindside flank did was quite truly “impactful”.

His tackles, and according to some stats sources he made the most of any South African on a day when defence was frequent and stressful, were proper thump-backers, for want of a more orthodox word.

His carries were seldom less than bruising, constantly abrasive, too, and his laybacks agreeably swift when he took contact, often (necessarily) from multiple All Black defenders.

The Newlands-based customer’s whole game just screamed of authority; as if he had been wedded to the Bok No 7 jersey for years … which, of course, he decidedly hasn’t.

For Du Toit has, more accurately, had to be a fast learner in the role, probably twigging (even if with a hint of trepidation or reluctance initially?) that an extra string to his positional bow might be useful given the country’s usual surplus of high-quality locks.

He has also, just as pertinently, graduated with flying colours from the school of hard knocks as far as his “re-education” is concerned, as his earliest exposure to No 7 was anything but blissful sailing.

Indeed, many less determined, perhaps more impatient players might well have quickly abandoned any thoughts of positional remodelling had they suffered certain of the relative indignities Du Toit did as he painstakingly learned the trade.

Bear in the mind the following: his first start as a flank (in his fifth Test match) coincided with one of the most tumultuous results in Springbok history: the defeat to Japan at Brighton in the 2015 World Cup.

It was all of 13 matches later in Du Toit’s international career that he was exposed once more to the No 7 role … and you might well say that occasion went even worse for him.

He got a much-publicised, costly run-around - twice - from gleeful England scrumhalf Ben Youngs at Twickenham, prompting many critics to almost scornfully write him off as a utility factor and simply pigeonhole him back as a second-rower following the 37-21 roasting. (NOT BY BEENO OF COURSE!)

Let’s give kudos to usually besieged then-coach Allister Coetzee for having the courage, 11 months later, to put a daring toe back in the water, entrusting the blond-mopped competitor with the blindside cares anew in a gallant, thrilling, Championship-ending 25-24 loss to NZ at Newlands in 2017.

Increasingly more adhesive and alert from a positioning point of view in structured defence (his more spontaneous, sometimes last-ditch defending has always been inspiring) Du Toit gave a fine display.

With increasing levels of stealth, he has looked more and more streetwise in the role subsequently, as evidenced by eight of 11 further appearances in the green and gold coming on the side of the scrum rather than within its very belly.

The stirring confirmation of his “arrival” as a blindside strongman in every sense, of course, came on Saturday when his post-match tears of joy for a landmark win became one of the most iconic photographic images from the Cake Tin fixture.

He had produced a robust, imperious showing in the jersey to make a string of illustrious predecessors proud: into that category, I’d earnestly suggest, would fall such figures from the relatively modern annals as Theuns Stofberg, Gert Smal, Andre Venter, Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw and Willem Alberts.

Du Toit is also a superior athlete to several of those - while not giving an inch to many of them in pure physical dimension and desire, either - which only adds to the burgeoning excitement around his potential to prosper still further.

Remember, he has only started 10 Test matches as the dedicated No 7 for South Africa, so continued improvement seems a racing certainty.

One thing is crystal-clear, I think: regardless of specific area of responsibility (yes, he remains a massively attractive option at No 5 lock) Du Toit henceforth starts all properly blue-chip Test matches for his country.

No more of this bench malarkey for him.

He is my early tip as a likely global stand-out at the 2019 World Cup.

Whether he cherishes such status or not, and more probably the latter, a fully-fledged international star was born in Wellington.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:05
#2
19 Sept 2018, 17:05#2

Note the inability of some oaks to to slam Du Toit for a few errors and not have the judgement to see the obvious talent DuToit has for the 7 position!!!

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:46
#3
19 Sept 2018, 17:46#3
The hype is incredible.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:47
#4
19 Sept 2018, 17:47#4
Well said Beeno
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:57
#5
19 Sept 2018, 17:57#5

Beeno

Mozart and his minions have tried to attack Du Toit under other threads and they will certainly do so again.   They all seem to have p et hate players and they fabricate grounds which are both funny and tragic.

The obvious attack is that the article is hype and consequently worthless,    However, the same scoundrels have quoted hype articles in the past being hyping up some really worthless players for years.   

I want to give two examples of total falsehood.  There was a weird story of Mozart under another thread about Du Toit in the Welsh test in June.   It was so distorted even a crook would not be  be able to decipher that concoction.   Then he also came with a weird story involving Du Toit in the missed catch of Louw - by implication blaming Du Toit for the missed catch.   The pass from De Klerk was accurate and straight to Louw - but the attempt to misled members on that one was really desperate.         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 17:57
#6
19 Sept 2018, 17:57#6

Beeno

Mozart and his minions have tried to attack Du Toit under other threads and they will certainly do so again.   They all seem to have poet hate players and they fabricate grounds which are both funny and tragic.

The obvious attack is that the article is hype and consequently worthless,    However, the same scoundrels have quoted hype articles in the past being hyping up some really worthless players for years.   

I want to give two examples of total falsehood.  There was a weird story of Mozart under another thread about Du Toit in the Welsh test in June.   It was so distorted even a crook would not be  be able to decipher that concoction.   Then he also came with a weird story involving Du Toit in the missed catch of Louw - by implication blaming Du Toit for the missed catch.   The pass from De Klerk was accurate and straight to Louw - but the attempt to misled members on that one was really desperate.         

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2018, 18:03
#7
19 Sept 2018, 18:03#7
Mostert 36/ Stephanie 18 under objective scoring. Dumb fans can't see it.....read the mozcroscope you fools.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 19:24
#8
19 Sept 2018, 19:24#8

Mozart

The third distortion in two days - that must even for you an achievement.   In any event - very few will ever accept he BS spouted on this site about Du Toit.   Your comments are really so weird - it is in fac t hat one could expect from a lunatic.  

Don't you know that distortions are in fact lies?    And go and read what the words "distortion", "misrepresentation" and "objective"  mean.   You are abusing especially the last one.    

By the way that mozcroscope you wrote is a total combination of two of the above words and a total abuse of the third one.  Only a complete idiot will agree with it.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2018, 19:51
#9
19 Sept 2018, 19:51#9
36>18.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 20:09
#10
19 Sept 2018, 20:09#10

Total BS has affected Mozart's brain - sad really,   Nobody can rely on something created by you based on total misrepresentation.    Sorry - but that last figures you mention will not be recognized by real analysts - but then we have the self-proclaimed world experts will be foolish enough to come up with that kind of BS.

Why don't you change your username to Gupta - taking into  account  what you come up with  on this site would be appropriate in your case.   That would help their cause - they are twisted on an amateur basis - you are a professional in that field.     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 20:09
#11
19 Sept 2018, 20:09#11

Total BS has affected Mozart's brain - sad really,   Nobody can rely on something created by you based on total misrepresentation.    Sorry - but that last figures you mention will not be recognized by real analysts - but then we have the self-proclaimed world experts will be foolish enough to come up with that kind of BS.

Why don't you change your username to Gupta - taking into  account  what you come up with  on this site would be appropriate in your case.   That would help their cause - they are twisted on an amateur basis - you are a professional in that field.     

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
19 Sept 2018, 21:52
#12
19 Sept 2018, 21:52#12

This is becoming excessive. Why do the media always do this? Why does everyone always listen to them? Steph had some good moments. He also made a lot of errors as well. On attack, Steph is better. Defence showed the common issues. He is too reactive on defence. As a fringe defender he would rush out of the line, but expose space behind him that the All Blacks would exploit. In open space, he often got burned. He made some good stops, but the errors really propelled die Schwarzwelle with momentum inside.

The only way a person will improve in the majority of instances is to be held to a high standard. South Africa molly cuddles too many players, and ironically lambasts many of the best or better players . 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2018, 22:47
#13
19 Sept 2018, 22:47#13

So when a player you like perform poorly it is unfair to criticize them and an excuse must be find to exonerate him by all means possible,  

Nobody but our site top world rugby analysts are the ones to decide when a player is praised or criticized and the norm where it may happen is to be determined by them.   So Louw can knock on a ball and Du Toit is the one who caused the knock-on by being 2 meters away from Louw.   Very logical - average spectators would never note that,  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Sept 2018, 23:05
#14
19 Sept 2018, 23:05#14

Dr Moz rightly points out the great work of all heart Mostert. To me Du Toit needs a bi t more credit although Moz does say he had a good game.

Now oaks no need to lose your shirts. its all a matter of opinion.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Sept 2018, 01:27
#15
20 Sept 2018, 01:27#15

Show me where I have made an excuse for any "player I like". You don't actually know which players rank as my personal favourites as we have never discussed one. 

You are so quick to mouth off that you ignored the fact that I rated Louw and Damian the worst of all the players. So where did I make an excuse for anyone? I rated Steph a 7 in spite of his errors. You on the other had excused Damian's limp performance.

This is all rather embarrassing Herr Lügnerin. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2018, 06:12
#16
20 Sept 2018, 06:12#16

Not have to go far back - remember Louw.    And then we have had a long string starting with Morne and Fat Fransie followed by all of Matfield and half of the rugby geriatrics.  In the second Argentine test Louw was almost as bad as he was in the first test   and subsequently  you still named him as a loosie in the Springbok squad.  Foolish and contradictory at best. 

You are almost as blind as a bat when it comes to real rugby performance - so there is no need to even comment on the rest of your drivel.    


  

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Sept 2018, 06:21
#17
20 Sept 2018, 06:21#17

I had no excuse to make. I presented what happened. You blamed Louw for three tries. I corrected you, then you slunk away. We have to keep your forked tongue in check. Like Pakie, when he made a mockery of you regarding his carry numbers. That was very funny! 

With regards to Morné. No excuses. I started a thread showing the Bulls success on attack and how he was used, also providing data which revealed he was a key catalyst for linebreaks. You slunk away. 

Frans? I haven't gone into great length about him, but I have stated the various things he has done. Where's the excuse? 

Do you want an excuse? Blaming Damian's lack of success against Australia because he "wasn't given fast ball". That in spite of the fact that he was given quick ball with numerous carries into a passive defence. It was a complete mockery of your little narrative. That'd am excuse. 

When making a case for a player, I don't have to talk another down, I don't have to lie and I never need an excuse. I just show what happened. That's enough for any honest person.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2018, 10:02
#18
20 Sept 2018, 10:02#18

BS in buckets - in the many cases where the players I listed in your case - there were always excuses and cover-up by you - in the case of De Allende there is no real proof of bugger-ups and a gross degree of BS "ifs" - altogether misrepresentations.

So lets look at the above:-

*   I never blamed Louw being responsible for three tries - all always dealt with his performance in all tests this year.   You are onto your own dreams as to what you wrote,  I always says that one has o look at all tests played - especially when the tests are only three months apart.   What happened here is typical - a lie followed by the normal concoction produced by you and Pakie. 

*   Well that Morne Story is utter dreamed up BS.   I dealt with Morne as a test player only - and that is where he failed.   Anyway Morne was never known for attacking the gain line and making  decisions that could lead to attacking play.   That is a dreamed-up load of crap.   And even when Hansen said they know what to expect of M orne - you started a cover-up which is total BS.

*    Sure Fat Fransie made non-existent line breaks - missed tackles in droves and made a record number of possession losses in the 2014 Super Rugby season - but you describe him as the exact opposite.    Should one believe your concoction or facts?

Your so-called honesty has been compromised by prejudice and resultant misrepresentations.   I can give your one example - in his tests this year De Allende made 41 tackles and missed 5 - but the attack is on his defense.   Eserhuizen made 22 tackles missing 7 so you attacked De Allende for weak tackles and praised Esterhuizen for strong tackles.   How do you determine that?   Prejudice determine that,   

Listen - I would rather believe  Pinocchio in being an amateur liar than you and Mozart when it comes to professional and habitual creating of lies.   But then you two are so rugby ignorant, one cannot trust you anyway.            

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
20 Sept 2018, 11:14
#19
20 Sept 2018, 11:14#19

Eserhuizen made 22 tackles missing 7

No, he made 22 missing 5.

De Allende made 41 tackles and missed 5

No, he made 37 missing 5.

Discount the England game in atrocious conditions where Esterhuizen missed 3 tackles, and he is at 19 made 2 missed. There is nothing wrong with his tackling, just like DA has been solid as well, although his weakness will always be the attacker stepping to his inside.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Sept 2018, 11:14
#20
20 Sept 2018, 11:14#20

Pinocchio being an amateur liar? Come now Lügnerin, you're entitled to toot your own trumpet every once in a while. Don't be shy! 

Now, onto Damian. I have actually covered his best test, according to stats, and weeded out the truth. Where you rely on numbers, I rely on film. I noted every detail. You denied everything, but could not form a retort. When I posted images of his poor body position and footwork in the tackle and exposing the ball in contact, you denied it was any kind of proof. Just as you lied about him being hamstrung by Faf in the Aussie loss. Just as you lied about his contributions against New Zealand. You've been debunked so many times I have to wonder how you overcome the boredom of it all. 

Morné the test player was fine. The problem was this: you were one of the gullible, fickle masses who took the Lambie train to Eggtown. I did not. That's the beginning of our disagreement. You've clearly been warping reality in your mind for many years, so much so that I now believe you are utterly convinced of its truth. When faced with reality we see the tender coil of emotions around this fallacy lash out irrationally. You succumbed to this tall tale for so long that you cannot emotionally come to terms with the truth. It'll only grow worse as time passes by. I feel very sorry for you. 

Lügen haben kurze Beine 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Sept 2018, 20:28
#21
20 Sept 2018, 20:28#21

Thanks for feeling sorry for me - if the coach falls for the BS spouted by you and Mozart. I will feel ten times sorrier for him than you could ever feel for me.  

He will definitely lose his job I that case -s o good luck to him if he follows a route as far away from the BS you spouted,  

I sympathize sincerely with you on the Morne issue - if you could not see his constant poor performances - you really must have a serious sight problem.   By the way Morne was dropped after disastrous performances in 2012 and was replaced by Goosen in 2012  and by Pollard twice in 2014 when Morne was even worse.  Where did Lambie fit into that  situation?    You did not even get that right.  Incidentally Lambie never really was ever as poor as Morne was in tests in 2012 and in subsequent tests.       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Sept 2018, 00:23
#22
21 Sept 2018, 00:23#22
This liar hasn't even admitted Mostert had a role in the Dyantyi try.....despite the video.....and despite not one other poster agreeing with him.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Sept 2018, 02:11
#23
21 Sept 2018, 02:11#23
Mozart
You dream up a very remote aspect of the try scored by Dyantyi and then claim that I lied. Fact it was rectified and said that Lienert Brown was not hampered by Mostert as alleged by you.  It might rather have disturbed two forwards with no chance of ever getting to Le Roux and Dyantyi.
Another distortion in your normal style and you expect from me to apologize for your distortion - no way can I do that.   You should rather rectify your BS yourself.    
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
21 Sept 2018, 03:09
#24
21 Sept 2018, 03:09#24

There are times when one will be the lone soldier fighting a cause. In those moments you have to produce a lot more than insults. He isn't able to defend himself on any level. The closest we get are misused numbers or quotes from whoever happens to agree wit him - he has a bad habit of helping these people out at times. Reinterpreting what they really meant. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Sept 2018, 10:21
#25
21 Sept 2018, 10:21#25

No - AO - I do not need to use insults to prove any point - I merely respond to insults and personal attacks, I do not assume being a  top analyst in world rugby  - as Mozart claimed the two of you are,

What b others me is the total disregard of factual reality you specialize in.  But that is your problem and I do think you are entitled to your own interpretations - if you do not like it when anybody differs from you he becomes an ignorant  plastic fan or worse,  



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Sept 2018, 11:15
#26
21 Sept 2018, 11:15#26
The bias on this thread is actually so ridiculous that I feel I need to point out some truths. Seriously, when Beans is the voice of reason and the most balanced poster on a thread, some serious questions need to be asked. Pieter Steph is a slightly overate player. Mostert is a slightly underrated player. Both are good, hard working players, and both deserve to be in the team. With every discussion involving you lot it is invariably either black or white. Regardless of what the discussion is about. Childish to the extreme! I  usually put it down to you being extreme to get a rise out of one another, but I am starting to think you are actually incapable of being objective.   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Sept 2018, 11:31
#27
21 Sept 2018, 11:31#27

Sorry BB

I apologize for what is happening on site.  I deplore extremism as well.   I do have problems with s ome players and has mentioned some performances by players like Du Toit and De Allende in the past.  Earlier this year I left out De Allende from my proposed Springbok team altogether.

However, what irks me is creation of extremely questionable attacks on players - not on the basis of actual performance, but on the basis of pet hates.   That type of things have been going on for years and is to my mind unacceptable.    When that type of thing happens - I will always defend the denigrated players.

To claim that tackles are weak or strong - or players are pace-deficient or not cannot be done on the basis of prejudice as well.   It cannot be done in the case of one example either - there needs to be a series of matches indicating such a situation.  

In essense I think we should start afresh and avoid the dubious personal prejudice trap like a plague.         

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Sept 2018, 13:16
#28
21 Sept 2018, 13:16#28
Manned up Mike. Respect. 
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
21 Sept 2018, 13:16
#29
21 Sept 2018, 13:16#29

Here are the first half contributions from Steph:

All Blacks (B) vs South Africa (S) - Abbreviated Notes

02:38 - B9 to B5. S7 and S6 Tackle.

02:52 - B9 to B7. S6 tackles, supported by S7. B7 offloads to B9. B9 to B10. B10 has POD close right. He fades laterally out and pops inside ball to B4. He wraps him up low. S1 over the top, cleaned out by B7.

07:16 - S8 to POD (S4.S7.S5), S7. 

09:24 - B9 to B12. B12 cut ball to B13 in front of B3. B13 to B14. He finds space, S11 in front of him, stands him up then hurts outside him well into Bok territory. S13 catches him, but B14 offloads to B15 near touchline. B15 stops his run and passes back inside to B13. S2 dives from behind and grabs him. S7 a little closer grabs him high, slips all the way to his feet. B13 is right in front of the try line.

09:58 - B9 moves up towards guard and pops defenders, between them. Short ball to runner. He beats S7 on the outside, advancing deep into Bok 22, dragging S1 in the process. 

10:22 - Two line of attack. First (B5.B1.B7), second (B12. B6). B9 to B5. S7 rushes up and takes him low. Kiwis lose it forward. S2 dives on loose ball. [ADV]

12:35 - Bok lineout. S9 to S10. S10 cut ball to S12. Cut ball to S15. S15 loses ball attempting turn in tackle. B13 gathers, darts outside S9. Caught by S9, offloads to B7. Burrows between S12 and S7.

17:57 - B8 to B4. Targets space between S6 and S7. Both converge, S7 tackles low, S6 tries to drive him back. 

23:43 - Cut ball in front of flat POD to B10. B10 to B12 in face of defence. S7 tackles low, taking him to ground. 

23:48 - B9 to B14. S11 marks up on B14, shutting the outside off. B14 cuts back inside. S7 tackles low, S6 tackles high, driving him to ground. 

23:56 - B9 to B7. B7 takes it to the line, slips short ball to B8 as S3 hits him head-on. S7 tackles low, brings B8 to ground. Kiwis lose control of ball. (resulted in Bok try). 

26:07 - Cut ball to B6. He finds junk in line between S7 and S6. S7 is flatfooted, but dives low and takes B6's legs strongly, bringing him to ground. 

26:21 - B9 options both sides. Line of forwards to the left, two to the right with two backs out wide. B9 to B7 to the right. B7 back inside long to B10. S7 rushes out the line. B10 sees S7 out line, withdraws pass and fixes S3 before sending B1 into space vacated by S7. S7 beaten cleanly. B1 make along trek into before being downed by S10 in Bok 22.

27:43 - Bok lineout. S9 Box kick deep into Kiwi 22. B11 fields kick but drops ball. S14 chases with S7 on his inside. B11 beats S7 cleanly on the outside. S8 brings him down.

29:00 - Bok lineout. Maul collapses instantly. S7 carries it up well. 

29:49 - S9 behind S7 screen to S10.

33:17 - B9 cut ball to B14. B14 to B15. B15 high ball to right. S15 attempts tip back, S13 attempts to gather loose ball, knock-on. B14 gathers, darts infield. S9 drags him down but B14 breaks free. S4 and S7 grab him. S7 slips off tackle, S4 brings him down. 

35:19 - S9 Box kick. S14 chases. S14 misses B15 completely. B15 bursts down touchline. S6 tackles well, but offload to B13. B13 immediately caught by S5. S5 slips tackle. Sloppy offload gathered by B9. B9 long infield to B10. B10 bursts between S7 and S13. S7 catches him low, but offload to B3. S3 ends the attacking sequence with tackle.

35:36 - B9 to B12. B12 to B14. B14 fixes S7, inside ball to B15. B15 grabbed waist level by S13. S7 assists with knockdown tackle. 

35:53 - B9 to B8 (POD). S5 tackles low, brings him to ground. S7 assist. 

36:30 - B9 wide to B13. B13 to B4, B4 draws S7, passes to B12. B12 cut ball to B8. S13 and S11 tackle. 

37:10 - B9 to B10. B7 draws S7, has nobody on his inside. Opportunity lost as S7 takes him low, S8 takes him high, driving him to ground. 

39:56 - B9 to B7. B7 draws S7, short ball to B4. B4 advances into space left by S7, but S6 wraps him up low. 

CONCLUSION

Was I "biased" to say he had defensive issues? That he was overly reactive and sometimes ineffective rushing out the line? Is this the productivity of a "Best Bok of the game"? I find the arrogance of some people who take zero seconds to assess the game very telling. Especially when being told I'm biased, childish etc. It would be more constructive to point out where I am wrong. Note that I did rate Steph a 7 overall inspite of his flaws. 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
21 Sept 2018, 13:24
#30
21 Sept 2018, 13:24#30

However, what irks me is creation of extremely questionable attacks on players - not on the basis of actual performance, but on the basis of pet hates. 

Yes, like blaming Morne for losing a game he didn't even play in.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
21 Sept 2018, 13:31
#31
21 Sept 2018, 13:31#31

He's done that a few times. Once even claiming he played badly under Jake. That he was being discarded to a French soccer team. That he lost the 2012 Dunedin test after he was subbed for Goosen with the scores 8 all. It goes on and on. However, it is we who are biased and evil! 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Sept 2018, 16:41
#32
21 Sept 2018, 16:41#32
That is the point Aug. He had a good game. You guys just seem to get so wrapped up in your tiffs with Mike, that you pull out a microscope to find fault with a player on the wrong side of the argument. Okay, so a good argument can be made for Mostert having made a greater contribution in the game than PSDT. But the point remains that PSDT had a good game. Please read this comment of yours and tell me it is describing a player you rated as 7 out of 10. Based on this a 4 or 5 would make more sense. 

This is becoming excessive. Why do the media always do this? Why does everyone always listen to them? Steph had some good moments. He also made a lot of errors as well. On attack, Steph is better. Defence showed the common issues. He is too reactive on defence. As a fringe defender he would rush out of the line, but expose space behind him that the All Blacks would exploit. In open space, he often got burned. He made some good stops, but the errors really propelled die Schwarzwelle with momentum inside.

The only way a person will improve in the majority of instances is to be held to a high standard. South Africa molly cuddles too many players, and ironically lambasts many of the best or better players. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Sept 2018, 17:11
#33
21 Sept 2018, 17:11#33
No Bloobok......wrong old chap. Wrong that Mike stepped up....he gave a platitude and then sneakily attacked his opponents. And dead wrong that I attacked Stephanie.....I did a totally neutral fair points scoring analysis for Mostert and du Toit. You haven't even bothered to look at it, which is fine, but then don't assume it's biased. That is bloody insulting.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Sept 2018, 17:29
#34
21 Sept 2018, 17:29#34
I did look at it Mozter. And it actually persuaded me that Mostert had the better game. But Du Toit also had a good game and did a lot of good things. And if you find what I say insulting, well, you're a big boy, get over it. You have had a bug up your arse about "Stephanie" for years! See what I did there? And who can forget his sloped shoulders? Lots of insults from you for the poor fella. Granted, he did not live up to all the hype he created when he first burst onto the scene, but he is still a worthy Bok, hence his regular inclusion in the Bok team by numerous coaches. 
If you won't admit you've been gunning for him, so be it. No skin off of my back. But your regular insults directed at the kid, and the fact that you'd go to the obvious lengths you did in your mozcroscope to point out his deficiencies in the AB game tell a different story. 
PS...I also rate Mostert, and I think he is one of the Bok and Lions unsung hero' s.  
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
21 Sept 2018, 17:35
#35
21 Sept 2018, 17:35#35

I rated Steph a 7 overall in spite of his flaws when weighing up the impact of his total contributions. Whether Clever Mike loves Steph or not is really irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the truth. I challenge the assertion that Steph is indispensable. I'll challenge the media's manipulation of the general fan base with garbage. I abhor that. I don't pull out a microscope to find fault, I merely dig out all the events and evaluate it. My recently posted thread on Coetzee more than attests to that, so too the information I posted above. 

Now, to hide or distort information with the sole purpose of deceiving people? That would be bias and prejudice. The very act clearly indicates that the subject is aware of the lie. Who does this? Pakie, Moz and I have been repeatedly called liars and biased, yet what have we hidden? What have we distorted? Nothing. We've brought a lot of information to the surface. We'll gladly show video footage, as we never have anything to hide.

"However, what irks me is creation of extremely questionable attacks on players - not on the basis of actual performance, but on the basis of pet hates."



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
21 Sept 2018, 17:47
#36
21 Sept 2018, 17:47#36
Aug, I have never called you a liar or anything of the sort. Just a bit of perspective, my understanding of bias, without looking up dictionary meanings, is simply to lean in a certain direction. Not necessarily to hide, or distort or deceive, but just to be more inclined to have a view from a certain perspective. Often it is not even a conscious action.
As for Mike, I have called him out often enough on his bullshit. So no need for me to explain that further. 
Your points on the truth.I agree.We all have our own opinions, but facts remain facts.  
While I'd love to stay and haggle with you lot, my weekend has just kicked off. Have a good one people
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Sept 2018, 17:58
#37
21 Sept 2018, 17:58#37
The fact that I 'went to obvious lengths in the Mozcroscope to point out his deficiencies' tells me you never examined it....or understood it. I described in plain Anglo Saxon what happened, with hardly an adjective. I recorded events. As for the Slope Shouldered thing.....partly a joke, parly true....humour isn't really your thing is it? And as for being wrong.....posters were howling for Stephanie at 5 in 2014. He isn't even first choice now 5 seasons later. How much less prepared was he in 2014? But in 2014 I was told I was dead wrong by virtually everybody on the Board. As I was told about JJ, Watson, Allende, Reinach, Lambie and a host of other test flops. I won't be wrong until he is the nrw incumbent 5, which I doubt will ever happen. So nope...think again.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Sept 2018, 19:37
#38
21 Sept 2018, 19:37#38

Mozart

There is only one issue here and that is for 5 years now you have hated Du Toit - based on thing thing only and that is the selection threat he posed to Matfield and the additional fact that Saffex and myself supported him and said that Matfield was not even remotely up to standard after he came back from retirement.   

Since then you have distorted everything you wrote about Du Toit and covered up Matfield's  poor play in an absolutely amazing way.  

So what is this thread about -  just a continuation of the hate mail against Du Toit.  You are obviously entitled to what you wr ite on site - but it is or balanced and unprejudiced members to distance themselves from the tripe you prefer to write,

The latest contributions are just about on par with your repetitive hate postings going on for years now and one can never expect that it will ever cease.   So keep it up - at least it is ridiculous and one can only laugh at it,     LMAO 

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
21 Sept 2018, 21:49
#39
21 Sept 2018, 21:49#39

No Clever Mike, you hated Matfield because he was a threat to Du Toit. Shall I repost your quote? Now provide evidence that we hate Steph or any other player. Just one. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Sept 2018, 23:12
#40
21 Sept 2018, 23:12#40
I don't hate any rugby player....I don't know them personally. I do despise the hype, but that's hardly the players fault. Stephanie was way not ready in 2014.....once again I was dead right. Tokkie you really shouldn't assume others have your views...you have a unique set of issues. You know what I mean.
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