@Denny re Markram and Mulder ... and the next prediction

Hi Flash, Denny seems MIA ATM. Zubyr Hamza is certainly a mouthful, hope he'll be a handful too.

I like your enthusiasm but beware....SAFFEX will be here shortly with a list of his own

Predicting a future for a cricketer is like predicting a future for a Golfer...….it's hard yakka.

I hear you and wish those youngsters well, the team definitely needs a good Allrounder in the shape of Kluesner or better but besides him they also need a machine as an opener and a reliable middle order now that the great Amla is showing a downward spiral.

No team can win an ODI WC without a decent Allrounder.

GL with your spotting.

Den, i was referring to our conversations over the years over future talent, and commenting on their progress thus far .

thats all.

Sure - but there was another 17 year old bowler/batsman in the Under 19 WC - who at that age already bowl at over 140 kmh.   I cannot remember his name - but he hit sixes like it was nobody's business.    He really was on par with Nortje.   If you check you may find his name in the Under 19 WC squad in New Zealand.   

By the way Nortje was the player of the Under 19 WC tournament this year - so he is the real future deal.    

And then there is that guy Botha whom Steyn apparently regards as his real successor.    

Well done Flash', at this rate you might have to sacrifice your daytime job and become a selector

I haven't seen Hamza in action and I need to check his stats but I'll take your word that he is a quality bat. I'm not convinced of your other pick though, Wiaam Mulder, he seems pretty ordinary at the highest level and would not make my Test or ODI side.

Think the current attack is world class, arguably the best since readmission with three world-class quicks and a world-class spinner in Maharaj. And with Nortje breaking the door down to get into the side the Proteas are definitely solid in stock insofar as their attack. But then there's the lingering problem of a world-class Allrounder, until that happens you can forget them winning an ODI WC. Also think they need to firm up on their batting, the quicker the better, Amla is aged and in decline, De Kock is a huge disappointment, the hard-hitting Morris suffers mind games and Duminy....well he's just Duminy, I wouldn't hang my shirt on him. The iffy Foolookquela seems to be the best bet as an Allrounder going forward.

Still, I could be wrong, cricket as we know is a funny game.

Denny

I desperately try to think about the 17 year old I mentioned - I think it was Frazer Jones or Hemann Rolfe  I referred to. Jones is a very fast bowler  and a good batsman as well while Rolfe is a medium pacer .  We will have to see how they develop.    I think very much  players in the Lance Klusener style.

I cannot understand what went wrong with De Kock - in one game he is excellent in the next one useless.   Always a class wicketkeeper - but his batting is a mixed bag,   I think it is a matter of carelessness on his part and not a question of ability.   I think he is still young enough to get out of the problem.   The bugger makes too much money and think all he has to do is to hit every ball for a boundary.   I think it is psychological.

I can see the squad develop well enough in future.     . 

Denny

I desperately try to think about the 17 year old I mentioned - I think it was Frazer Jones or Hemann Rolfe  I referred to. Jones is a very fast bowler  and a good batsman as well while Rolfe is a medium pacer .  We will have to see how they develop.    I think very much  players in the Lance Klusener style.

I cannot understand what went wrong with De Kock - in one game he is excellent in the next one useless.   Always a class wicketkeeper - but his batting is a mixed bag,   I think it is a matter of carelessness on his part and not a question of ability.   I think he is still young enough to get out of the problem.   The bugger makes too much money and think all he has to do is to hit every ball for a boundary.   I think it is psychological.

I can see the squad develop well enough in future.     . 

Sorry

I mixed up the item  or appeared to have been in part of the comments I made,  It was Van Tonder who were capta in of the under 19 WC this year and was player of the tournament.

This ii where the mix-up came:- 

"By the way Nortje was the player of the Under 19 WC tournament this year - so he is the real future deal."

Sorry the player I should have referred to is Van Tonder - not Nortje.        

Mozart

Thanks for the help - but it is totally up to maggots again.   Players like Graeme Smith had a terrible technique problem - De Kock has not.    If it was why is he often still the top scorer in the teams he played for?   Even in the Aussie ODI's he was top SA scorer in the Perth ODI.  

You first started writing about him in 2013  - when your claim was he would not be able to score to face the Aussie quick bowlers - and that claim flopped.  The next claim was he  could not play spin bowling - which also flopped.

His present problems  have nothing to do with technique and everything to do with concentration lapses - which he should overcome and I am sure he will.    Most of his dismissals are catches in the deep of balls he tried to hit for boundaries - that means he ii negligent in deciding which balls to hit and which not. 

Sorry.

I tend to agree with Clever here...

Technique has very little to do with de Kocks slump, but more to do with lack of brains.

Players like Gilchrist, Sewag, Gibbs, G Smith, Waugh, who were all world beaters, had incredibly average techniques.

1. Sewag played from the crease most of the time
2. Gibbs very rarely got to the pitch of the ball
3. Gilly opened himself up on the front foot to make room for himself
4. Smith had a horrendous bottom hand, but averaged 50 whilst opening the batting
5. Waugh could not play off the back foot on the on side

So there you have it.

The best in the world... with kak techniques.

He was and still is always a better batsman than Smith was in ODI's.    Ever since Smith was forced out of ODI's  in 2013 you have attacked De Kock endlessly and always wrote crap about him.   So what else is new?       

I wrote about ODI's  where both players were openers.   Tests are impossible to assess because Smith batted as opener and De Kock was either no 7 or a few times no 6.   Your case is built on nothing - so case not closed, especially since De Kock rarely played T20 games anyway. .  

Maaik, Graeme was the best test opener we ever had...best test captain too. 

Thought I'd just bump this back up to the top...

From 6 years ago.

From 6 years ago.

It took an awful long time for the billy to boil but hey it is what it is......I've always liked Markram, he's a class act but also his own worst enemy. Think lapses in concentration cost him. Wiaam, lets wait and see if it turns out to be the catalyst to propel him to consistent high achievements. Bill Lawry would always remind us that cricket is a funny game. Not convinced about Zubayr Hamza, think he might have been but his best years are behind him and that there's possibly better around....time will tell.

Also believe that Shukri Conrad deserves a lot more credit for what he's achieving with the Proteas.

DbD did you ever see Barry Richards playing?

Not disputing Smith's class.

"DbD did you ever see Barry Richards playing?"

No doubt we was on another level....

but through no fault of his own, having only played 4 tests its hard to call him the best opener we have ever had. I'd say that a player needs to play at least 30 - 40 tests to even be considered.

Had it not been for apartheid, i reckon we'd be looking at 4 or 5 more SA players in the top echelon of international legends.

It's so cricket for the most overrated opener we've ever had to win us our first trophy.

I musta dmit that I rgarded Markram as a serie failure 90% of the time and was ndee surprised that he made a century in the final. After all his batting averages are as follows:-

1. Tests - 36,5
2. ODI;s - 37,04
3. T20's - 30,37

That remains below par - which in tests should be 40+ - and the same apply to ODI's. I cannto see he can improve on the above averages and as you say he out of the blue made a test cnetury in the final. I stopped watchingcriket matches years ago - the SA sides really were just not up to standard - with the younger players like Pretorius around it is another thing altogether.

No Arthur, unfortunately not...a bit before my time...I saw the curtain of Graham Polock's career as a boy when he was still playing as a 40yo IIRC...our and everyone's hero...

WRT Graeme Smith...he wasn't the most gifted player ever, IMO he was the most dedicated and most determined...his fourth innings hundreds and average tells a unique story...

Such a pity so many player's potential were unrealized due to stupid politics...we should have learned by now, but unfortunately the same thing is happening under a different guise...cry the beloved...

Draad

You remind me of Paton - I had dinner with him and his wife at the home of Pat Poovalingum/ Both belong to a small Liberal Party in the 1970's. He was indeed a Liberal and could not dtand ywo eole Rajbansi and P W Botha. Before The latter was appointed in 1936 as Organizer of the National Party with his Headquarters in George/ He apparently always stayed on my Grandfather's farm Zeekoegat near Riversdale when working in the Riversdale area, My father was one of a very gew people who those days owned cars in the District and he carted around Botha to meetings. His first wife was a Miss Rossouw, whose father was a missionary in Albertinia. My mopther was a liberal herself and my parents generally moved away from the National Party

In the 1980's I had to attend a meeting in Durban - instructed by my boss - to attend a close door meetin g where a variety of people were present - and every attendee was introduced to both Mrs Botha and him. I was very reluctant to do that and rried to avoud it - but as one of the last people involved I eventually ended up to go and be intriduced, Botha as talking to he Mayor - who I also knew well at the time - and I was first introduced to his wife. My dialect of Afrikaans was very much like the Coloreds in the area speak and Mrs Botha hen she heard m name asked me where I came from and when I said Riversdale she asked me who my parents were. When I mentioned Zeekoegat PW Bitha stopped talking to the Mayor and said "I know your parents well - I want you to tell your apretns they must lease come and vist him when in Caoe Town My moter would not have anything to do with such na invitation and the visit never happened,

My younger brother guke un the military was a giard at the Presidents home and he was a favorite of the Botha family. Botha by then had a house in Wilderness. In the 1970's he was tranferred to George and he decided to byuy a home in Wilderness - here he beacme a deacon in te DRC. When my brither died in 2004 his funeral was in the DRC Church and the Church Minister had tos tart the funeral service there was a delay and then sme people walked in and sat in the sear firthest away from where the family sat and loking back it was PW Botha and his guards who entered,

By the way Zeekoegat is one fo the most historic farms in the Southern Cape - the first permanent building on the farm was constructed in 1768 and the first real home in 1795. A third much larger home was constructed in 1803 over a period of time - but was completed on 1817. On the ground level were the slave chambers in both - my mother - when she saw the chains in the walls of the rooms she had the chains removed and thrown away. Ske could not bear the idea to live in a home where people were treated like that and was in real trouble with the National Historic Comission - nearly ending up with a huge fine. That is why I was always interested in history - growing up in a home with a long list of references in historic books.

. . , ,

Mike

Such a lovely story.

what are the origins of Zeekoegat?