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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Starmer Refuses to Leave

Starmer Refuses to Leave

Started by sharkbok113 REPLIES1,360 VIEWS· 11 May 2026, 22:56
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
11 May 2026, 22:56
#1
11 May 2026, 22:56#1

Nearly everyone wants Starmer out. He is now the least popular prime minister of all time.


Starmer has become Joe Biden. Today, he was talking about a battle for the soul of our nation. "It is not who we are, blah de blah". He tried to give an inspirational speech about who Britain is as a nation. It was only a few months ago that Starmers' US ambassador, Peter Mandelson, was fired for giving Epstein insider information.


Starmer is refusing to resign, and it has become an ego trip about his own commitment to woke social values, while doing nothing to rein in the richest of society, who are consolidating wealth.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 May 2026, 03:00
#2
12 May 2026, 03:00#2

What needs to be reined in is your overwhelming jealousy of those wealthier than you.


...I mean, isn't that 90% of the population anyway?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 May 2026, 11:13
#3
12 May 2026, 11:13#3

And Toasters should always be kept in the fridge?


How is your Crypto investment going? You no longer see it as a long-term investment strategy, just something to short-sell and pretend to be a trader?


So you morphed from an investment expert to a trading expert. Ha, Ha ButtPlug, I warned you about Crypto from the very beginning. If you failed as a crypto investor, you will fail as a crypto trader.

Have you updated your LinkedIn profile yet?


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 May 2026, 12:25
#4
12 May 2026, 12:25#4

Umm, what are you talking about?


I bought BTC at $14k years ago and still holding it. It's currently at $80k.


Also...


Solana - bought at $12 currently at $90

Ethereum - bought at $1.2k currently at $2.3k


...and I've always traded memecoins, defi tokens, gaming tokens, etc.


Tell me, Visser, why do people that do better than you anger you so much? Were you a jealous child?


For some reason i get the feeling that you have siblings that have drastically outperformed you. Am i right?

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 May 2026, 12:28
#5
12 May 2026, 12:28#5

Oh , I also noticed that you ran away from the Ai thread where i asked you if you ever tested the GPT instructions i pasted for you. This was after you said something like "I'd want to see if your Ai's actually work....something about deepest darkest Africa"


Lol



sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 May 2026, 14:05
#6
12 May 2026, 14:05#6

PROMPT: What do real investors and day traders say about people who buy crypto only


RESPONSE:

Real investors and day traders often criticize people who buy only crypto as gamblers rather than serious investors, due to extreme volatility and lack of diversification. They view it as high-risk speculation that ignores traditional assets like stocks and bonds. Many recommend limiting crypto to 5% or less of a portfolio.

Key Criticisms

  1. Gambling Over Investment: Day traders call crypto-only strategies "gambling" or "speculation," especially short-term plays on volatile assets like memecoins, contrasting with long-term holding of diversified assets.
  2. High Failure Rate: Forums note most day traders lose 80-90% of funds from emotional trading, advising against it for crypto-only buyers.
  3. Poor Diversification: Pros urge spreading risk; even aggressive young investors average only 14% in crypto, seeing all-in as reckless.

Common Advice

Experienced voices prefer HODLing strong projects like BTC/ETH in a balanced portfolio over all-crypto exposure. They stress discipline and warn volatility can wipe out undiversified holders during downturns.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 May 2026, 14:08
#7
12 May 2026, 14:08#7

ButtPlug, you are the perfect target for Crypto. You delude yourself into thinking you know a topic through emotion. It clouds any form of logic and filters out reality to reinforce your misinterpreted narrative.

You basically con yourself; it is like shooting fish in a barrel for the crypto creators.



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 May 2026, 15:11
#8
12 May 2026, 15:11#8

lol...BTC is the best performing asset in human history.


In fact, you should probably buy some now.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 May 2026, 16:03
#9
12 May 2026, 16:03#9

I know enough about investing and trading to know that I don't know much about it.

I would only rely on the recommendations of someone who does this as their day to day job, not some wannabe Crypto investor trying to impress people on a blog by positioning themselves as a guru



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 May 2026, 16:11
#10
12 May 2026, 16:11#10

You seethe with jealousy, ViaKop

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 May 2026, 16:22
#11
12 May 2026, 16:22#11

Hey Guys, look at me - an investor and more recently a day trader...ButtPlug, you are the one trying to make yourself sound successful...


The new African answer to Sam Altman and Bankman-Fried combined into one. You, Sypho and Malema are working 24/7 on the new AI model. Ha, ha..


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
13 May 2026, 02:59
#12
13 May 2026, 02:59#12

Hey Guys, look at me - an investor and more recently a day trader...ButtPlug, you are the one trying to make yourself sound successful...


The Plug just can’t help himself; with his imaginary captive audience, it’s like he has to constantly showcase his successes. He’s been noticeably silent about moving to Canada—just another attention-seeking exercise. Thousands are migrating to Canada quietly and without any fuss, unlike the Plug, who attaches a sense of self-importance.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 May 2026, 10:18
#13
13 May 2026, 10:18#13

As i thought, you have nothing to add. Just as you had nothing to add on the oil price thread other than showing us that you really are out of depth even when someone has literally drawn pictures to explain it to you. Just a jealous little man that hates the rich because he knows he'll never be one of them. Sucks to be you.


Yes, Denise...we should all make a million posts about trump. Cos that's far more healthy and interesting to read.








sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
13 May 2026, 13:22
#14
13 May 2026, 13:22#14

ButtPlug, the pseudo-intellectual who uses big words to try to pretend he is a topical expert. This is evident in his writing style, which is oblique and vague. He makes a prediction, but it is totally unclear what it is. A bit like saying one day it will rain, and when it does rain he claims credit for the prediction.


He has a YouTube education and picks up a few stompies here and there. For a few months, he is a long-term Crypto investor, then switches to day trading.

Everyone knows that the price of oil will drop when the war is over, but the Plug thinks he can see patterns in the data to make a prediction, when really there is only one variable of significance.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 May 2026, 13:37
#15
13 May 2026, 13:37#15

lol still not understanding but running your mouth.


What have you actually contribute to any of these conversations?


...oh, wait...you asked Chat gpt some questions and posted its anwers.


What a specimen you are

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
13 May 2026, 14:08
#16
13 May 2026, 14:08#16

still not understanding but running your my mouth.


Story of your life Pluggie boy..... the story of your life.



sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
13 May 2026, 14:12
#17
13 May 2026, 14:12#17

This thread was about Starmer, and ButtPlug changes the topic. Was it not he who was complaining recently about threads changing topics? The ButtPlug was schooled on the other threads and should have learned his lesson, but clearly did not. His charts were BS. It did not predict the price of oil going up again significantly (e.g. over 20%), shortly after he predicted minor fluctuations upwards, before moving downwards again.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
13 May 2026, 14:19
#18
13 May 2026, 14:19#18

Try J.P Morgan, Buttie, they're desperate for a financial geniarse like you. A financial Guru shouldn't waste his talents on an inconsequential message board.


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 May 2026, 16:23
#19
13 May 2026, 16:23#19

You spoke about your usual jealousy of the wealthy. I commented on that.


...you brought up crypto.


lol numpty

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
13 May 2026, 18:38
#20
13 May 2026, 18:38#20

So ButtPlug, have you started to like your own posts? It seems miraculous that there is always one like, but never two.


What does Starmer have to do with being rich and successful? I supported him in the beginning, regardless, but no longer see him as the way forward. Incidentally, he is the least popular prime minister ever, so not many other people do either.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
14 May 2026, 00:38
#21
14 May 2026, 00:38#21

"Starmer is refusing to resign, and it has become an ego trip about his own commitment to woke social values, while doing nothing to rein in the richest of society, who are consolidating wealth."


...pleb

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 May 2026, 12:29
#22
15 May 2026, 12:29#22

Well Shark it would seem you want Starmer to ‘rein in the richest in society’. What exactly should he do? And what form does this wealth consolidation take? How is it harmful?

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
15 May 2026, 12:58
#23
15 May 2026, 12:58#23

Average wage growth has flatlined in the UK over the last 15 years (for the first time ever). The US has also experienced minimal wage growth. (Excluding the Oligarchs, who are paid out in dividends and loans instead of wages anyway).


The wealth gap is growing, and the voters want that resolved. It is a Democracy with majority rule.

This transcends left/right-wing politics; it is something the majority can unite around.


A short-term treatment is increasing taxes on the richest 5%, or at least making sure they pay the same % of wealth (not just income taxes, capital gains workarounds, etc).


That will allow taxes to be reduced on everyone else, instead of the majority carrying an unnecessary burden. Wealth should be taxed at a flat rate, regardless of who owns it.


However, the real fix to the problem is more competition. Low competition and monopolies are not a long-term plan, it consolidates wealth in fewer hands. If America want their Oilgarchs and shareholders to be the main benefactors, we need to cut them out of the supply chain. I would prefer a protectionist EU that Boots out Big Tech. If we block their tracking technologies, like Google, we can replace them by giving the data to European companies like Search engines. The EU is still committed to a global market of open fair trade, whilst China and America are protectionist, but still want to access the market.


More competition will better distribute wealth.

Capitalism = lots of competition = Democracy = decreasing wealth gap

Authoritarianism = low competition = privatised communism = increasing wealth gap.


(Traditional communism is no competition, with centralised state ownership). China actually have more competition, so whilst being politically COmmunist, their economy is more Democratic)


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 May 2026, 15:07
#24
15 May 2026, 15:07#24

SB


Back to Starrmer. If he resigns what has the Lab/or Party got to replace him. As fa as I can make out the candidates are from the far left-wing of the Party and that is just going to embark on spending sprees and then havo increased taxation wh ich in the end cause g rbeate pverty than is there at present,


Maybe I should not be bothered by such a move by Labor - It will inevitably lead to destruction of the Labor Party itself,




sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
15 May 2026, 16:02
#25
15 May 2026, 16:02#25

Andy Burnham seems to be the best Labour has. However, Starmer blocked him from being an MP, so right now, he was not eligible.


However, an MP has just stepped aside, so that has triggered a by-election for the MP's job that Burnham is going to compete in. But... It is an area that Reform has done very well in recently, so there is no guarantee that he will win this. If he does win and becomes an MP, he has the backing of most of Labour to take the job.


Although having a mini-runoff with other candidates would be good to hear what he has to say, first of all.

The other candidates are not great, and Stammering Starmer may even beat some of the other candidates.


Burnham is from the North of England, and Starmer is from London. I think he should get the job, with Rayner (another very working-class person) as the deputy. I think people might get behind them. Although time will tell....


The North of England have lost total faith in the establishment (left and right wing), hence why Reform has grown so quickly. However, the new party, Restore, appears to be growing as quickly, and its focus is on illegal immigration.


With the rise of China, it has raised questions over Democracy. Many in the West do not believe their governments work for them. As if the 2 main parties are 2-sides of the same coin, or 2-sides of the same arse.

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 May 2026, 16:49
#26
15 May 2026, 16:49#26

Burnham has tried to become leader twice before and failed. Hopefully, it’s not a case of third time lucky.

As for Rayner, no thanks. She’s a nasty piece of work.


I think that when a party wants to change its leader, they are forced to call a General Election. Let the country decide who becomes PM, not a party swopping and changing like the Conservatives kept doing.


Governments don’t work for us and yes, we are losing our democracy, I believe.


Just my opinion, before you start jumping on me !

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 May 2026, 15:17
#27
16 May 2026, 15:17#27

The problem with your logic Shark is wealth is the result of creating value. Mankind has benefited vastly by the activities of US tech firms And there is strong competition in every category. In fact the modern world would grind to a halt if they suspended activities for a day


Witness Microsoft, top dog three years ago and now challenged by many alternatives. Yes you could legislate away some of Google’s lead in search..but nobody but the shareholders of companies that got a helping hand, a finger on the scales, would be better off


You could tax their success beyond current levels, but you run the risk of reducing entrepreneurial activity or more likely the flight of capital to other taxing jurisdictions




Go to Berlin and take a tour through formally West and East Berlin to see the difference between the two economic models… grey Soviet slums vs a successful modern city


Pure capitalism linked to societal safety nets has produced the best for most

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
16 May 2026, 16:55
#28
16 May 2026, 16:55#28

As for Rayner, no thanks. She’s a nasty piece of work.


Why is she nasty?


I think that when a party wants to change its leader, they are forced to call a General Election. Let the country decide who becomes PM, not a party swopping and changing like the Conservatives kept doing.


There wouldn't be a leadership change if that was the case. Right now Labour would lose an election so why would they change leader if they knew that just result them being thrown out of power. Would be better to stick with Starmer and hope he can turn it around.


But asides from that general elections in the UK don't elect a Prime Minister. They elect MP's from one of the political parties or an independent. The party member decide who will be party leader and thus Prime Minister.



sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
16 May 2026, 18:30
#29
16 May 2026, 18:30#29

@Mozart,

Your cliches about capitalism ignore competition. Low competition is more like privatised communism than capitalism. America used to be all about competition, that is, the entrepreneurial spirit. Low competition is just consolidating capital in a few hands.

Big Tech are the product of old America; the path they are on now does not prepare future generations (e.g. 70% of Big Tech employees in America are not American).


China has distributed wealth through greater competition, so in many ways, they are more capitalist. If anything, America is nationalising and taking a stake in the private sector, like China.


The world benefits from oil, and without it, everything would grind to a halt. That does not mean there should be no competition in oil suppliers. If anything, more competition would be better. Green energy, if anything, is another competitor that will push energy costs down.


In theory, America should benefit from having the most Tech companies; however, America was a better society before the rise of Big Tech. Their wealth distribution and trust in government systems were much better than now, and there was much less conflict between left and right, etc.


MAGA is associated with Trump, but really, it is created out of dissatisfaction with the status quo. Trump turned this into a marketing campaign, but many of his supporters are eventually starting to see this.

However, Trump is a symptom - not the cause.

The declining trust in traditional career politicians, both left and right. While they both talk a good game on social issues, the economic policies they deliver are not that much different. Neither is solving the increasing wage growth crisis, nor the fact that more of the cumulative wealth is being consolidated in the hands of the richest 3%. That is not a Democratic agenda. America could be heading for a civil war, and most Americans believe they are on the wrong path. Who cares about an AI competition with China? If your society is on the wrong track, you will lose the long-term battle anyway.


Communism fails because of its centralised power. Capitalism fails when it centralises power (Due to reduced competition).


Europe is in the process of moving away from being dependent on Big Tech, for the very reason that a volatile America is no longer stable enough. We can have competition in Europe.

What Google does with its tracking is not difficult. Only they have the user data. if other search engines could do this, goodbye Google. Europe is fading out Microsoft.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
16 May 2026, 22:05
#30
16 May 2026, 22:05#30

ChatGPT Prompt: "What is the impact when a capitalist society reduces competition?"


Response:


In a capitalist economy, competition is one of the primary mechanisms that drives efficiency, innovation, price discipline, and consumer choice. When competition is reduced — whether through monopolies, oligopolies, excessive consolidation, regulation capture, or barriers to entry — the structure of the economy changes significantly.

The impact is not always entirely negative in the short term. Some reductions in competition can improve scale, infrastructure investment, or stability. However, over longer periods, persistent reductions in competitive pressure tend to create economic inefficiencies and concentration of power.


Economic Impacts

Higher Prices

With less competition, firms gain greater pricing power.

In competitive markets:

  1. Businesses must compete on price and value
  2. Profit margins are constrained
  3. Consumers can switch providers easily

In concentrated markets:

  1. Prices often rise faster than inflation
  2. Hidden fees increase
  3. Service quality can decline without immediate customer loss

This is common in sectors such as:

  1. Telecommunications
  2. Energy
  3. Banking
  4. Healthcare
  5. Digital platforms

A monopoly or dominant oligopoly can effectively become a “price setter” rather than a “price taker.”

Reduced Innovation

Competition forces businesses to improve products, services, and operational efficiency.

Without strong competitive pressure:

  1. R&D investment may slow
  2. Product improvement cycles become longer
  3. Incumbents focus on protecting market share rather than innovating
  4. Firms may buy competitors instead of competing with them

Historically, many major innovations emerged from competitive rivalry:

  1. Automotive manufacturing
  2. Consumer electronics
  3. Software
  4. Advertising technology
  5. Telecommunications

However, there is nuance:

  1. Extremely fragmented industries may underinvest in long-term innovation
  2. Large firms can fund major R&D projects smaller firms cannot

The key issue is whether dominant firms remain contestable by new entrants.

Lower Productivity Growth

Competition improves productivity because inefficient firms are forced to adapt or fail.

Reduced competition can lead to:

  1. Organisational complacency
  2. Bureaucratic inefficiency
  3. Lower operational optimisation
  4. Reduced incentive to automate or modernise

Economists often associate declining competition with:

  1. Slower GDP growth
  2. Lower productivity growth
  3. Wage stagnation

This has been debated heavily in the context of large technology firms and modern corporate consolidation.

Wage Effects

The labour market can also become less competitive.

When a small number of firms dominate hiring in an industry or region:

  1. Worker bargaining power weakens
  2. Wage growth slows
  3. Employee mobility decreases
  4. Benefits and working conditions may deteriorate

This is sometimes called “monopsony power” — where employers have disproportionate control over labour markets.

Examples include:

  1. Large logistics employers
  2. Dominant retailers
  3. Consolidated healthcare systems
  4. Certain technology ecosystems

Wealth Concentration

Reduced competition often concentrates:

  1. Capital ownership
  2. Political influence
  3. Market power
  4. Data ownership
  5. Infrastructure control

This can widen wealth inequality because:

  1. Dominant firms generate excess economic rents
  2. Smaller businesses struggle to enter markets
  3. Asset owners benefit disproportionately

Over time, capitalism can shift from:

  1. Entrepreneurial capitalism
  2. to:
  3. Corporate or financial capitalism dominated by incumbents

Political and Regulatory Effects

As firms become larger and more dominant, they often gain:

  1. Lobbying power
  2. Regulatory influence
  3. Control over standards
  4. Influence over legislation

This can create “regulatory capture,” where:

  1. Rules favour incumbents
  2. Compliance costs block smaller competitors
  3. Market entry becomes harder

This creates a feedback loop:

  1. Reduced competition
  2. Increased profits and influence
  3. More barriers to entry
  4. Even less competition

Consumer Effects

Consumers may experience:

  1. Fewer choices
  2. Worse customer service
  3. Lower transparency
  4. Reduced interoperability
  5. Ecosystem lock-in

Digital markets are a modern example:

  1. Platforms can dominate distribution channels
  2. Switching costs become high
  3. Network effects strengthen incumbents

Examples include:

  1. Social media
  2. Search engines
  3. App ecosystems
  4. E-commerce marketplaces

Financial System Risks

Highly concentrated economies may become more fragile.

If a few institutions dominate:

  1. Failures become systemic
  2. Governments may feel forced to bail them out
  3. “Too big to fail” risk increases

This became highly visible during the 2008 financial crisis involving firms such as Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, and AIG.

Potential Advantages of Reduced Competition

There are situations where reduced competition can produce benefits.

Economies of Scale

Larger firms may:

  1. Reduce production costs
  2. Build infrastructure more efficiently
  3. Improve logistics
  4. Fund major research projects

Examples:

  1. Semiconductor manufacturing
  2. Aerospace
  3. Utilities
  4. Large-scale cloud computing
Stability

Highly fragmented markets can sometimes produce:

  1. Price wars
  2. Unsustainable businesses
  3. Underinvestment
  4. Excess volatility

Some industries naturally trend toward concentration because scale matters significantly.

The Core Economic Debate

The central issue is not whether competition should exist, but:

How much concentration is efficient before it becomes economically and socially harmful?

Modern capitalist economies attempt to balance this through:

  1. Antitrust laws
  2. Competition authorities
  3. Merger regulation
  4. Consumer protection
  5. Data portability rules

Examples include:

  1. Competition and Markets Authority
  2. Federal Trade Commission
  3. European Commission

Long-Term Structural Outcome

If competition continues declining over decades, capitalism can gradually evolve into:

  1. Oligarchic systems
  2. State-corporate alliances
  3. Rent-seeking economies
  4. Neo-feudal wealth concentration structures

In those environments:

  1. Wealth increasingly comes from ownership and control rather than productive competition
  2. Barriers to upward mobility rise
  3. Entrepreneurship weakens
  4. Economic dynamism declines

This is one of the major structural debates in modern economics and political economy.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
16 May 2026, 23:26
#31
16 May 2026, 23:26#31

-]


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 May 2026, 10:45
#32
17 May 2026, 10:45#32

Shark your cliché’s about competition are outdated. Amazon is in effect a monopoly, but it’s applying its monopoly more as a monopsony. In effect by reaching out to different suppliers, many in China, it has become a force for keeping prices low.


Search for an item on Amazon and you get many alternatives, all aware of their competitors’ prices. This market has has been perhaps the largest factor in China’s penetration of the US market.


And who is Amazon’s competition, Walmart another near monopoly of physical mega stores and Google a different pathway to most of Amazons suppliers. Each look like a monopoly but in fact compete with and do business with each other. If Amazon raises it’s own margins it runs the of diverting customers directly to suppliers via Google or sending them to shop at Walmart.


But it’s very aware of these risks and it acts cooperatively so you might find your ‘rapid delivery’ item ordered on Amazon, supplied by Walmart in an unbranded box.


The old Depression Era notions of monopoly spouted by out of date economists and parroted by Chat don’t reflect the modern economy. There is vast competition for anything which makes money, multiple delivery systems for any manufacturer and the world as your supplier.


A company may act like a monopoly, but if it;s value proposition changes competition will expose that flaw. We don’t need governments breaking up super efficient companies like Amazon and Google who have done more to restrict inflation than any Central Bank,


As for a European response, as in the case of a military switch away from America, it’s possible, but not without all the hard work. The first step is building a cadre of financiers, versed in tech and willing to take big risks. Silicon Valley has that capability. Then there is the network of suppliers. The skilled people in all the disciplines…..and above all trying to step onto a moving train. What exists today will be vastly better tomorrow and Europe doesn’t even have today.


All of this is the ultimate exercise of democracy, people using their talents to produce wealth for themselves. It’s truer today that when John Stuart Mill wrote:


‘Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign’


That quote has been far truer than anything you’ll find in Das Kapital, Marx’s botching of economics. And China only emerged because in the economic sphere they allowed some measure of that freedom.


Yes vast sums of money have been made in the process, at times that appears to be excessive. But eliminate those efforts and we would all be much poorer. If it was presented fairly I’m sure most of the mega rich would pay some sort of surtax.


Perhaps they are given shares in the Humanity Enterprize….a charity for the betterment of mankind. Some of which could be an actual tax, some of which could be a charity. These shares have no economic benefit but huge social credit. Just an idea.


If you have lost the game, as Europe has, it’s tempting to blame the rules. But changing them will not change how the modern world is functioning,





PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 May 2026, 14:43
#34
17 May 2026, 14:43#34

Do you know that if the UK was a US State...it would rank dead last in terms of income per person?


Even the rust belt red States earn more per person.


It's no wonder the Poms, and Visser types, are chucking stones across the pond. Jealousy and denial is a horrible combo.


The US is constantly at the cutting edge of everything. They dare to dream and dare to take risks. The majority of those risks don't pay off, but the ones that do keep them perpetually ahead of the curve.


Visser, Europe and the UK need to understand that they are masters of their own destiny. The only feet on their throats are those of their own leaders. And it's not this leader or that leader ...it's the entire system and all of them. Europe is drowning in its own pessimism and denial. Wake up FFS.


The best part is that so many tech people from Europe actually go to the US and make their ideas become a reality.


To me, that speaks to one environment being more conducive to opportunity and innovation than the other.


Perhaps that's the place to start. Fix the system and regenerate the environment to one where people actually have a chance.


More heavily taxing the few that have created wealth is literally the opposite of that. You'll chase future innovators away and in another twenty years you'll still be complaining about "Booo the evil Yanks have monopolies on everything."



sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
17 May 2026, 15:07
#35
17 May 2026, 15:07#35

The ButtPlug sits in the darkness of Africa, thinking he is a genius among the other monkeys.


Next to the ancient Greeks, the UK may have delivered more inventions than any other country. But dont discount the rest of Europe. (e.g. Einstein).


Google used to have its own AI department before acquiring DeepMind from the UK. Over time, Google fired its own AI department and renamed it Google DeepMind. The governments here need to stop homegrown companies from being acquired by American monopolists.


The governments here also need to wake up to GDPR. It is a barrier to technological development.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 May 2026, 15:47
#36
17 May 2026, 15:47#36

No neither Trump nor Biden said anything of the sort….that came straight from me this morning. With a quote from John Stuart Mill. I don’t use Chat to think for me, I use it as calculation resource and to gather facts.


The conclusion from voters that the economy is not working for their particular skill set may be right, but the conclusion that things could be better for everybody is largely wrong. The fact that voters, with huge help from the Democratic media think things are bad, proves nothing.


Nor does the measuring tool of instant gratitude always serve long term gratitude’s purpose. How many of the Jewish elite were happy with Hitler’s early revival of the German economy. What was their fate 10 years later?


Sometimes you have to do unpleasant things, like fighting the Ukraine war or stopping Iran from becoming a nuclear player. That is the main beef with Trump’s economics. Tariffs have played little role.


Overall America is in outstanding shape with A’s on all of the report card including employment. The uptick in inflation will subside when oil is normalized and then we will hear the deflation worries again.


Leave well alone.



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 May 2026, 15:49
#37
17 May 2026, 15:49#37

"More heavily taxing the few that have created wealth is literally the opposite of that. You'll chase future innovators away and in another twenty years you'll still be complaining about "Booo the evil Yanks have monopolies on everything."


The lefty way...hate people with more money than them..I think you hit it on the nail with the envy angle.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 May 2026, 16:01
#38
17 May 2026, 16:01#38

The ButtPlug sits in the darkness of Africa, thinking he is a genius among the other monkeys.


I guess that’s the white flag, but calling your fellow posters stupid because they are associated with South Africa seems arrogant


Next to the ancient Greeks, the UK may have delivered more inventions than any other country. But dont discount the rest of Europe. (e.g. Einstein


You make Plum’s point perfectly, there are very smart people in Europe but the little men in suits make it impossible for them to succeed.


Google used to have its own AI department before acquiring DeepMind from the UK. Over time, Google fired its own AI department and renamed it Google DeepMind. The governments here need to stop homegrown companies from being acquired by American monopolists.


In which case Google would acquired another company or simply hired away the key Deep Mind people ….in either case given the market hold they have they would have succeeded and Deep Mind would have languished.


The governments here also need to wake up to GDPR. It is a barrier to technological development


Probably true, but probably too late even if even implementable.



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 May 2026, 17:59
#39
17 May 2026, 17:59#39

"Next to the ancient Greeks, the UK may have delivered more inventions than any other country. But dont discount the rest of Europe. (e.g. Einstein)."


Just to be sure, are you pretending that I was talking about the UK in the entirety of all its history, or that perhaps I am clearly talking about today's Britain?


Pleb

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
17 May 2026, 19:36
#40
17 May 2026, 19:36#40

@Draad,

You quote what I say, but then remove context or completely ignore certain points.


I said to tax billionaires at the same rate (e.g. income or other wealth such as shares). However, if they were taxed at a higher rate, it would be temporary. The real fix to the problem is more competition, which will share wealth out. Basically, proper natural market capitalism. The American Oligarchs buy their competitors to boost share value, meaning that less wealth in the economy is taxable.


Microsoft acquired Activision. The first thing they did was to fire 10% of its staff, mostly in the US, and then they increased the price of the Xbox. Then they had another round of redundancies.


This practice reduced the number of jobs in the US, helping to suppress natural wage growth by impacting supply and demand. This is not natural market capitalism.

It was a natural market situation with competitors. Governments are meant to break up monopolies, not help them form. However, the US government is filled with shareholders, so we know where the loyalty lies. America is an economic cabal. They have centralised power and wealth into too few hands by killing competition. Instead, that boosted Microsoft's share value, meaning less taxable income/


  1. Normal people are taxed mainly on income
  2. Ultra-wealthy people often become richer through asset appreciation (shares increasing in value)

Those are not treated the same under the tax system.


The Simple Comparison

A normal worker might:

  1. Earn $60,000
  2. Pay roughly 20–30% combined effective tax on income (federal + payroll taxes, depending on country/state)

If Jeff Bezos:

  1. Gains $10 billion because Amazon stock rises
  2. But does not sell the shares

Then under current U.S. rules, most of that gain is not taxable yet.

So:

  1. Worker: taxed immediately on wages
  2. Bezos: wealth increases massively without immediate taxation

That is why critics say billionaires “pay almost nothing”.


The Wealth-Based Comparison

The famous ProPublica figure looked at:

Taxes paid ÷ increase in wealth

Their estimate for Bezos was roughly:

  1. Wealth increase: about $99 billion
  2. Federal income taxes paid: about $973 million
  3. Effective rate on wealth growth: about 1%

So:

  1. Average person:
  2. earns $100
  3. may keep ~$70–80 after taxes
  4. Bezos (under that metric):
  5. gains $100 in wealth
  6. pays roughly $1 in tax

That is the comparison people are making.


Examples

  1. Billionaires can borrow against stock instead of selling it
  2. They can live lavishly without triggering much taxable income
  3. Wealth compounds tax-free for years or decades
  4. Ordinary workers cannot do this

So the system effectively taxes:

  1. labour heavily
  2. capital growth lightly


The Core Political Argument

The real debate is not whether Bezos literally pays zero tax.

It is whether:

Someone whose wealth rises by tens of billions should face tax rates closer to ordinary workers.

That is the heart of the argument.

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