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The Theme Park on the big slide

Started by Mozart32 REPLIES533 VIEWS· 11 Apr 2026, 14:59
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Apr 2026, 14:59
#1
11 Apr 2026, 14:59#1

This from the NYT:


If global geopolitics were played out in a high school cafeteria, Europe would be having a “Mean Girls” moment.

Once a sought-after friend and trading partner, Europe is finding itself on the outs with the world’s big powers.

Russia, the continent’s longtime supplier of oil, turned on its Western neighbors after invading Ukraine and has been provoking Europe with sabotage, drone flights and cyberattacks.

China, an important frenemy and the European Union’s second-largest trading partner for goods, has flooded the bloc’s markets with cheap goods, undermining industries in Germany, France, Italy and the rest of Europe. It has also halted or restricted the export of critical minerals, disrupting the European supply chain.


And the United States, its closest BFF, is repeatedly threatening to break up. President Trump launched a nasty trade war, made a power grab for Greenland and supported far-right parties that could destabilize governments.

Even the name calling has ramped up. Mr. Trump has slammed members of the Atlantic alliance like Germany, Britain and France as “cowards” after they put limits on aiding the American war on Iran. And he crudely mocked President Emmanuel Macron of France and his wife.

In Mean Girls-speak, it’s like calling Europe fat.

Now, the U.S.-Israeli war on Iran has further contributed to Europe’s growing slate of economic problems and made it more difficult for the region to both cope and compete.

For starters, the fallout from the conflict has exposed Europe to another energy shock. Europeans engineered an extremely painful and expensive transition away from piped Russian oil and gas, relying much more on deliveries of liquefied natural gas, or L.N.G.


Most of that L.N.G. comes from the United States, underscoring Europe’s vulnerability to American supplies. At the same time, the global price shock from the interruption of supplies from the Persian Gulf has hit Europe hard.


Gas prices in Europe are 60 percent higher than they were before the war’s start on Feb. 28. Britain and Italy are particularly affected because of their heavy reliance on gas in their energy mix. In Germany, Europe’s largest economy, inflation has already spiked and is expected to rise for at least the next couple of months, forecasters at Pantheon Microeconomics predicted.

Pricier energy also raises production costs for businesses and Europe’s energy-heavy powerhouse industries like automobiles, chemicals and machinery.

And that further contributes to Europe’s longstanding competitiveness crisis, which has been marked by its shrinking share of the global economy. A 2024 report commissioned by the executive arms of the 27-member European Union concluded — among other things — that the bloc must invest nearly $1 trillion in artificial intelligence, a shared energy grid, supercomputing and more if it is to compete.

The need for investment comes at the worst possible moment given the crushing debt load that most European countries are already facing.


European leaders, no longer confident that they can depend on American security guarantees, have already ramped up defense spending. The European members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization have doubled military spending over the past decade. By 2030, they are slated to spend more than $1 trillion on defense equipment and related infrastructure.

At the same time, growing costs of providing social services, pensions and health care to aging populations are further squeezing public budgets.

With debt levels already at record levels in countries like Britain, France and Italy, borrowing costs are becoming more and more expensive.

Barry Eichengreen, an economic historian at the University of California, Berkeley, who has written about public debt, said research showed that countries that dealt most effectively with a giant debt problem either had robust growth or low levels of political polarization. Europe has neither.

At its most recent meeting, the European Central Bank revised its growth projections for this year down to 0.9 percent from 1.2 percent because of the sudden rise in energy prices provoked by the war in the Middle East.


As for domestic politics, far-right, anti-immigrant parties have been gaining ground over the last decade in countries like France and Germany, promoting agendas that only recently were considered frighteningly extremist.

Recent polls found that the far-right Alternative for Germany, or AfD, was nearly as popular as the ruling Christian Democratic Union.

The violence and volatility in the Middle East raise the specter of a new refugee crisis, which is likely to increase anti-immigrant sentiment, boost the far right and further sharpen divisions among voters. Friedrich Merz, the chancellor of Germany, has said: “We have a strong interest ourselves in avoiding new influxes of refugees from the region.”

Far-right nationalist parties also tend to be wary of the European Union itself, suspicious of ceding too much power and independence to officials in Brussels. Yet many European officials, economists, business leaders and others argue that the only way for the region to hold its own economically and politically in a more hostile world is by even closer cooperation.


For decades, European security and prosperity rested on military protection from the United States, cheap energy from Russia and mutually beneficial trade based on international rules. That global order has crumbled.

Mario Draghi, the former Italian prime minister who oversaw the European Union’s competitiveness report, recently warned in a speech that Europe “risks becoming subordinated, divided and deindustrialized — at once,” if it doesn’t take coordinated steps to deal with Chinese and American policies.

Mr. Draghi has gone so far as to call for the bloc to transform into a stronger union that coordinates defense, industrial policy and foreign affairs in addition to trade, economic and monetary policies.

“Individually, most E.U. countries are not even middle powers capable of navigating this new order by forming coalitions,” he said. “Power requires Europe to move from confederation to federation.”

At the moment, though, diverging priorities and polarizing politics in Europe are making coordinated policy responses more difficult than ever.





PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
11 Apr 2026, 20:14
#2
11 Apr 2026, 20:14#2

I'm not smart with these things, but I get the feeling that a bubble is starting to burst, especially with all these debt loads. I can see it in business here in SA - the number of businesses closing, how much we have noticed the middle class disposable income falling with a clear and disconcerting acceleration over the last 2 years. I don't know how people are going to keep up with the rate at which cost of living is rising with stats indicating consumers are already spending around 73% of their income just on servicing debt. I get the feeling that whatever capitalism has created is fast becoming unsustainable and is heading for a terminal implosion with nothing and no way to stop it. Just about everyone is in debt and living purely on debt, from lowest citizen to government and it gets worse every year. Where is all this headed? For how much longer can this artificial system (because not even money is real, is it, it's just numbers on a computer) sustain itself?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Apr 2026, 22:29
#3
11 Apr 2026, 22:29#3

I have seen numbers showing the total debt for the US and Europe up around 700% of GDP, which seemed far too high. Working with Chat the big error is double counting of financial debt…one institution lends to another, which lends to another….all financing one asset. When that’s stripped out the numbers are more like 300% of GDP….which at a 4% interest means debt service in the US might be absorbing 12% of GDP….some $4.5 trillion.


That in itself is small compared to national wealth of $180 trillion. But components like government spending start looking large relative to tax revenues. Here’s a chart Chat produced that’s interesting:



comparison.

???? Major European economies — non-financial debt (% of GDP)CountryGovernmentHouseholdsNon-financial corporatesTotal



???? France~110–115%~65%~145%~320–330%???? Netherlands~40–45%~100%~160%~300–310%???? Spain~100–105%~55%~65%~220–230%???? Italy~135–140%~40%~70%~245–255%???? Germany~60–65%~55%~80%~195–205%???? Belgium~105%~60%~120%~280–290%???? Austria~75–80%~50%~110%~235–245%???? Portugal~110–115%~65%~110%~280–290%???? Finland~70–75%~70%~110%~250–260%???? Greece~160–170%~45%~70%~275–285%?? Comparison totalsRegionGovernmentHouseholdsNon-financial corporatesTotal



???? Euro Area~90%~60%~95%~240–260%???? United States~120%~75%~90%~280–300%



On that basis, setting aside France and the Netherlands the numbers are okay. But with Europe’s slower GDP growth rate and individual country exposure, the constraints on extending debt and continuing to finance economic growth are likely to appear at lower debt levels.


There has to be a limit on debt as a percentage of GDP hopefully not discovered through some massive financial crisis.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Apr 2026, 23:05
#4
11 Apr 2026, 23:05#4

globalism is exporting all jobs and production to the likes of China, etc...you can't have large trade deficits and expect your economy to grow...

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
11 Apr 2026, 23:47
#5
11 Apr 2026, 23:47#5

Europe needs to apply protectionism - like China and America. Forget about the rules based order of global free trade. The EU is expanding with more countries wanting to join (e.g. Iceland and Ukraine).

Protectionism will force self-dependency, and such a large demand will create large scale investment to improve.


Over 70% of Big Tech offices located in the US are foreign people, with under 30% native Americans.

Big Tech companies also offshore a large % of jobs to India that could be done in the US - so Big Tech actually has more Indian employees than American. This might explain why many of the Big Tech CEO's are Indian.

A pesky datapoint is that much of America is not great at technology, despite having the Biggest Tech companies. So America is winning the tech race, but to the determent of their society.


The H-1B Visa program is widely hated in America. It is stuff like this that has led to the MAGA movement. Many of the MAGA supporters want reshoring and to reverse globalisation to put majority interests first. A law was passed to include a 100,000 dollar fee for importing foreigners to America during September 2025.

However, Big Tech have countered this by offshoring more jobs to Make India Great Again - instead of recruiting more American workers. It is more profit for the shareholder, despite being against the societal goal of America.


America also passed a law that allows the US government to access foreign data in the cloud.

Our data is not safe from American companies - or their government.


Microsoft is the first Big Tech company to feel the brunt of being phased out in Europe.

Many governments are ditching Microsoft for open source or European alternatives. With a growing EU, their is a huge market, so each time an organisation removes US Tech, it makes Europe stronger. and American Big Tech smaller. We also have strong partners like Canada who want to be part of European trade networks.


As for China, and their two currencies to outprice the global market rates, they just need to be blocked through protectionism, and we need to reshore operations. Prices will increase but jobs will increase as well pushing up wage growth. Lets see how well China does without so many of our companies basing their manufacturing operations there. If most big companies base their manufacturing in one country, it is no surprise that the country would become the best at manufacturing- and in time steal the IP


While the UK left the EU, we still have the same problems. UK needs to rejoin the EU and we need a Europe First movement that works for the majority- not MAGA. Once our tech sector is growing, we also need to reduce illegal immigration and refugees from countries with rapidly growing populations. We could cherry pick some Indians with lots of experience in the tech sector, but for the most part immigration must be a two-way street - otherwise it is a great replacement program where their birth rate is double the native populations.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2026, 00:27
#6
12 Apr 2026, 00:27#6

Too late and too many obstacles like multiple languages and national governments to overcome. Europe’s largest tech company is 20% the size of Nvidia. Company’s aren’t going to settle for second best, no matter how many laws the little men in suits pass. As for protectionism, Europe is far less open than the US already.


A slow decline into irrelevance is already underway,


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 Apr 2026, 01:07
#7
12 Apr 2026, 01:07#7

Most educated people in Europe speak English well. However, everyone should have to learn English in school. Many companies are already leaving the US cloud, because they believe American companies are stealing IP along with other data.


Once America's tech sector starts shrinking- it will show they are a country that has already peaked - but just being propped up by Big Tech. Even the corpse that was Biden - and the man-child Trump could do well with Big Tech dragging them along


Google is only the best search engine because they track user data. Other search engines can only track what happens in their search engine, not the destination website after the click (e.g. make a purchase).

Google is just sorting websites based on conversion rate for each search term. So the users rank the results - not the search engine. Block Google, and give the data to European Search engines- and Google is buggered. Then other countries follow suit- then good bye Google. Once other countries catch on, they will follow suit- and Big Tech starts to become Little Tech.


Facebook is equally dependent on user tracking data, without it they would lose 75%+ of their sales revenue. Facebook is able to track you across the internet as you navigate from website to website but if they are blocked they cant do this.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 01:48
#8
12 Apr 2026, 01:48#8

How does Europe gain some steam again?


England is basically a bank at this point and Web3 is breathing down their necks. Again, US start-ups are so ridiculously out ahead of traditional banking countries like England that in ten years we'll again be hearing VisKop complain about how they've monopolised another tech sector...banking. It's actually funny because Europe seems to think that approving some crypto ETFs means they're keeping up with the times while American developers are creating blockchains that distribute compute across the globe and offer streamed compute power via subscriptions to customers. Not that distributed compute is necessarily the future but it's an example of how, yet again, the Americans take a new technology pioneer it to see what works, unafraid to fail. And you can take to the bank the fact the US will win web3, they've pretty much already won, just like they won Web2.


The automotive industry in Europe is looking similar to the above where Tesla is looking, at least in terms of quality, like it's gonna lead the EV market indefinitely because, yet again, they pioneered self driving and EV technology while Europeans rested on their laurels.


It'll take a Steve Jobs type of phenomenon to see anyone in Europe making a respectable impact in the consumer electronics industry. While Asia and the US are competing and pushing each other to new heights, Europe is mostly just a customer.


For me, Ubisoft is a perfect example of Europe. A company that was absolutely styling 10 years ago, and is now worth a fraction of what it was because it bought into the blue haired idea that two productive hours of work is oh so much better than coming into the office, working an 8-10 hour day and getting fired if you underperform. In my little gaming community, over the last few years, there has been this running joke that we only trust Asian games because they are some of the few that still care more about the product they put out than making sure they identify their employees by their chosen pronouns.


Software development is going to play an ever increasing role. It’s never going to slow down. And if you use the output of high quality games as a quick temperature check, since it does point to the quality and availability of developers capable of handling complex, performance-intensive systems, it can give a rough indication of a country’s underlying technical talent, even though it's only one slice of a much broader software ecosystem.


And then, semiconductors...do we even need to go there?


We all know that the world is only going to become increasingly more technological. It's inevitable, so you would think that for Europe to make a comeback, they'll need to charge ahead on at least one of these fronts, but which one? It just looks to me like they're so far behind the curve that it's almost pointless trying.


The sad thing is that nothing other than hubris got them into this position.


The US and Asia build first and regulate later. Europe regulates into the ground and kills most things before they've had a chance to walk because Brussels seems to think that compliance = success

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 01:54
#9
12 Apr 2026, 01:54#9

"Once America's tech sector starts shrinking- it will show they are a country that has already peaked - but just being propped up by Big Tech. Even the corpse that was Biden - and the man-child Trump could do well with Big Tech dragging them along"


You say this while the US are leading the way in AI, quantum computing and Web3? Literally the three technologies of the future.


Cumon now.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 Apr 2026, 02:38
#10
12 Apr 2026, 02:38#10

I would agree that the lawyers in Brussels should focus more on laws as a means to achieve a goal, rather than the end in itself. They could use GDPR to take over the tracking technologies and create a level marketplace. At the moment, European companies have no chance if they can't even access their own user data, but foreign American companies can. It is like reverse protectionism that helps American companies.


China just blocked data products, so it creates a big gap in the market for their own companies. It took some time, but they caught up.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 Apr 2026, 02:54
#11
12 Apr 2026, 02:54#11

I would argue American companies are actually slowing down Web3, except in areas like Crypto. Web2 is better for tracking users as they navigate the World Wide Web - at least in the current status quo, which favours American companies.

Web3 would create more competition in data products due to a level playing field for accessing aggregated and anonymous data, and make them more privacy-centric.


I think you overrate Crypto. Talking about how fast a chip spins is not really a benefit to the world economy.

A currency has value based on supply/demand and collateral. Crypto does not have collateral because it has no government backing. If a government backs crypto, there would be less risk and therefore less profit, just like any other currency. The other benefits are meagre, e.g., faster clearing houses.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2026, 04:31
#12
12 Apr 2026, 04:31#12

It’s not just in tech….here’s the battle for the biggest new thing in ethical drugs….Lilly taking on Novo:


Novo Nordisk shares are trailing Eli Lilly's

Novo stock is only 11% higher than it was four years ago, while Lilly shares have risen over 400%.



In tech, companies are exposed by new developments. But it’s US companies like Nvidia exposing former US category leaders like Intel. A big domestic market, the willingness to fund risks, aggression, competence, networking….they all provide a huge edge in all but the basic manufacturing areas. And those are heading to China not Europe.


The bureaucracy, the complacency ….the sheer stupidity in the case of energy have pretty much doomed Europe. Just as it’s not suddenly going to be fighting in Ukraine, it’s not going to reverse it’s economic decline.


I still prefer British movies though …entertainment and Theme Park tourism should continue to do well.




PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 06:23
#13
12 Apr 2026, 06:23#13

Visser, I think you're missing the point on web3.


Cryptos are a thing, but web3 also encompasses tokenisation of real world assets, trustless user to user transactions, true private banking, encryption...there'a a whole world of stuff and it's all built on block chain.


My girlfriend's daughter works at Luno, which I'm so stoked for her about. They're now minting Zar stable coins.Its backed by banks and if I remember correctly, Standard bank holds the currency that backs their stable coins.


The facilitation of transactions with those stablecoins, it's web3.


NFTs are another good example. I'm not talking about JPEGs that Jake Paul buys for gazillions. Rather about contacts, certificates, personal information, etc. No more need for secure servers that have to be protected...one simply mints an NFT with that info and it's incorruptible. That's web3.


And the Yanks are pushing these innovations.



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
12 Apr 2026, 10:35
#14
12 Apr 2026, 10:35#14

For me, Ubisoft is a perfect example of Europe. A company that was absolutely styling 10 years ago, and is now worth a fraction of what it was because it bought into the blue haired idea that two productive hours of work is oh so much better than coming into the office, working an 8-10 hour day and getting fired if you underperform. In my little gaming community, over the last few years, there has been this running joke that we only trust Asian games because they are some of the few that still care more about the product they put out than making sure they identify their employees by their chosen pronouns.


You don't by any chance of any evidence to back up the claim that Ubisoft's share value declined due to 'the blue haired idea that two productive hours of work is oh so much better than coming in the office, working an 8-10 hour day and getting fired if you underperform' and 'making sure they identify their employees by their chosen pronouns'.


Yes some Ubisoft games did not meet sales expectations, notably Star Wars: Outlaws. Other major titles suffered delays and others have been cancelled. But there is a myriad list of reason's for this.


This article lists some of the reasons why it's had issues. Unfortunately the full article is behind a paywall so you can't see everything but it gives you a general idea.


https://app2top.com/analytics/how-ubisoft-drove-itself-into-a-crisis-key-reasons-and-timeline-of-events-279333.html


If you want more information on the reasons, you can ask ChatGPT to elaborate further.


But lets just go look at Ubisoft's last big release. Assassin's Creed Shadows. It suffered a backlash during development, due to the decision to have the two lead characters being a female Shinobi and a black Samurai (based on an actual historical character). This was perceived as woke and disrespectful to Japanese culture. But this was mostly a western backlash that actual Japanese people didn't really have an issue with. They they had other issues with the game, like unauthorised usage of shrines, the architecture being inaccurate etc.


Anyway after suffering delays the game released to overall good but not brilliant reviews if you go by Metacritic but it was commercially successful initially overperforming against expectations having over 5 million players between sales and subscriptions. This punctures the narrative that games perceived as woke don't sell, or players don't want to play them.


Even the argument that Ubisoft is a perfect example of Europe doesn't hold water. Yes Ubisoft are a French company but they have dozens of development studios outside of Europe all over the world in the US, Canada, Australia, Asia etc. Is European laziness or wokeness to blame for the issue's at those studios as well?


Also it's interesting that you focus on Ubisoft an ignore the breakout success of Sandfall Interactive, the French developers behind the breakout game of last year of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 a game that swept the board at the Game Awards 2025 and won numerous other game of the year awards .


But your argument is even sillier when you actually look into European video game development industry and compare it to America's. Both have suffered job losses over the last number of years, but America has lost more jobs in the industry. You can't not have missed all the job lay off's in the industry by major American companies like Microsoft, Electronic Arts and Epic Games and yes European and Japanese developers are affected too. However over the last few years Europe has actually seen growth in the number of studios opening and games being release, has seen more investment in the industry and has gained more global influence than it had. Europe is actually the dominate force now for indie game development and it's that indie scene that actually drives creativity in the industry. Some absolute bangers that have come out of Europe in the last few years are Baldur's Gate 3, Hade's, the Witcher games, Cyberpunk 2077 and Disco Elysium. And hell even GTA 6 (perhaps you have heard of that title) is being developed primarily by Rockstar North based in Edinburgh.









PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 12:22
#15
12 Apr 2026, 12:22#15

Dress it up however you like but Ubisoft is down 96%. And that's after a few big releases that were supposedly gonna signal their comeback.


Probably Europe's biggest game publisher and now they're in penny stock territory.


Put your money where your mouth is, buy some Ubisoft haha



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 13:15
#16
12 Apr 2026, 13:15#16

I ran a ChatGPT check;



Query; Run a comparison between European and Asian publishers for games. I have a feeling that Asian publishers and studios are closing the gap or may have already overtaken Europe.


Answer;


Your instinct is actually right — and the gap isn’t just closing, it’s already flipped in key ways.


Let’s break it down cleanly using market cap + industry weight.


Europe vs Asia (Publishers) — Reality Check


Europe (publishers like Ubisoft, CD Projekt, Embracer)


  1. Ubisoft ? ~€0.5B (2026)
  2. CD Projekt ? ~€6–8B (varies)
  3. Embracer Group ? collapsed from ~€10B+ to low single digits


?? Total European “pure publishers”: relatively small today


Historically:


  1. Ubisoft was the largest European publisher
  2. But Europe never had mega-cap companies like Big Tech-backed publishers



Asia (publishers)


  1. Tencent ? hundreds of billions market cap (entire company)
  2. NetEase ? tens of billions
  3. Nintendo ? tens of billions
  4. Sony Interactive Entertainment ? part of a massive global giant


Asia dominates both scale and capital


Structural advantage (this is the key)


1. Market size is already Asia-heavy


  1. Asia-Pacific = ~47–52% of global gaming market


That alone means:

  1. More revenue
  2. More players
  3. More investor confidence


2. Top companies are Asian

  1. #1 (by revenue): Sony
  2. #2: Tencent
  3. #4: NetEase


Europe doesn’t appear at the very top globally anymore.


3. Capital concentration


Asian firms:

  1. Own stakes in global studios
  2. Dominate mobile + live-service (biggest growth areas)


Example:

  1. Tencent investing in Ubisoft itself (shows who has the capital leverage)


So who’s winning?

Europe


  1. Strong in AAA console/PC IP
  2. But:
  3. Smaller valuations
  4. Fragmented companies
  5. Less capital


Asia

  1. Dominates:
  2. Market share
  3. Market cap
  4. Growth segments (mobile, live-service)
  5. Backed by huge ecosystems (China, Japan, Korea)


Bottom line (no fluff)


Asia has already overtaken Europe — clearly — in:

  1. Market cap
  2. Revenue dominance
  3. Industry influence


Europe still matters creatively (AAA games), but:

  1. It’s now outscaled financially and structurally





PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 13:32
#17
12 Apr 2026, 13:32#17

And then I ran another query;


Now, if you can, provide me with a rough breakdown of Asian versus European developers in terms of hours worked by staff and expectations. Be brief.


Response;


Asia (major studios)


Typical hours

• 45–60 hrs/week common

• Crunch periods can hit 60–80+ hrs/week

• China (esp. big tech-linked studios): historically “996” culture (9am–9pm, 6 days/week), though pushed back recently


Expectations

• Strong emphasis on:

• Discipline & hierarchy

• Long-term loyalty

• High output / rapid iteration (especially mobile/live-service)

• Less tolerance for pushing back on management (varies by company)


Overall: longer hours + higher baseline intensity


?


???? Europe (e.g. Ubisoft, CD Projekt)


Typical hours

• 35–40 hrs/week standard

• Crunch still exists:

• 45–60 hrs/week during peaks

• CD Projekt became known for heavy crunch pre-2020


Expectations

• More emphasis on:

• Work-life balance (stronger labor laws)

• Employee rights / unions (increasingly)

• Flexible work structures


Overall: lower baseline hours, but crunch still happens


?


Bottom line

• Asia:

? Higher hours, more intense culture, faster output cycles

• Europe:

? Better balance on average, but still crunch-heavy in AAA


The gap exists, but it’s shrinking slightly as:

• Asia pushes back on extreme work culture

• Europe adopts more live-service pressure (increasing workload)



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 13:35
#18
12 Apr 2026, 13:35#18

Is Europe suddenly gonna start working as hard as the Asians do, or being as brave as the Americans in pioneering technology?


I'm guessing not.


So, how will Europe save itself?


I guess Brussels will regulate you guys out of decline.


LOL

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
12 Apr 2026, 14:58
#19
12 Apr 2026, 14:58#19

Dress it up however you like but Ubisoft is down 96%. And that's after a few big releases that were supposedly gonna signal their comeback.


I didn't dress up the fact that Ubisoft's stock value declined over the last number of years, I asked you to provide evidence that it was down to either European laziness or wokeness, while I linked to an articles that listed of the well publicized reasons why they have had issues. You haven't provided evidence or refuted the causes listed by the article.


Probably Europe's biggest game publisher and now they're in penny stock territory.


No one is disputing the share value. I'm disputing the cause of it.


Put your money where your mouth is, buy some Ubisoft haha


I don't buy shares.


Query; Run a comparison between European and Asian publishers for games. I have a feeling that Asian publishers and studios are closing the gap or may have already overtaken Europe.


What are you talking about, Asian publishers have always been ahead. Japan has Sony, Nintendo, Sega, Square Enix, Capcom, Nexon and Bandai Namco. China's relatively recent rise in the recent rise has only added it to that.


Secondly why are you only taking about game publishers. As I said the European game industry on the whole is growing overall with more studios opening and it's producing more games than it ever has. It has produced several million selling and critical acclaimed titles in recent years. GTA 5 was the biggest entertainment product every released and the core of the gameplay as well as story design was developed by Rockstar North who are based in Europe and it's highly likely GTA 6 which is again primarily been developed by Rockstar North will be even bigger.


Is Europe suddenly gonna start working as hard as the Asians do, or being as brave as the Americans in pioneering technology?


Work as long as Asian's. No absolutely not, because we are not slaves. Why would give up our better work life balance. Why engage in the endless rate race to the bottom, there is more to life than just money. Europe has a better quality of life, we live longer, we have better health, a better health care system, more labour and consumer rights and typically it's people are happier than either the US or China/Japan.


So, how will Europe save itself?


I guess Brussels will regulate you guys out of decline.


LOL


I've been hearing doom mongering about Europe since the 90's. It's getting old at this point.



PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 15:49
#20
12 Apr 2026, 15:49#20

"Work as long as Asian's. No absolutely not, because we are not slaves. Why would give up our better work life balance. Why engage in the endless rate race to the bottom, there is more to life than just money. Europe has a better quality of life, we live longer, we have better health, a better health care system, more labour and consumer rights and typically it's people are happier than either the US or China/Japan."


I'm reminded of...


"Hard times create strong men.

Strong men create good times.

Good times create weak men.

And weak men create hard times."


And we're seeing that play out in Europe right now.



RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
12 Apr 2026, 15:57
#21
12 Apr 2026, 15:57#21

"Good times create weak men.

And weak men create hard times."


I can think of one world leader who had a spoiled and pampered upbringing, became the weakest US president of all time and is busy creating hard times ahead.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
12 Apr 2026, 16:14
#22
12 Apr 2026, 16:14#22

You're not actually going to respond to the points I made are you.


It just comes across as you just picking laziness and wokeness as the reasons to bash a European company that is struggling because it suits you ideology. The game industry globally is going through really though time over the last few years, excess demand for video gaming during Covid lead to developers and publishers expanding staff numbers that are no longer needed as that demand falls back to normal levels, there is lower console sales, A.I memory demand driving up prices of video game hardware, higher development costs, longer development cycles and the larger companies chasing the golden goose of the live service games forever games that will last for decades but are ultimately chasing the same number fixed number of players who play those forever games and are finding there just isn't the room for more than two or three of them on the market. But in chasing that cash cow we ended up with loads of great studio's forced to try to make those types of games that they ill-suited too make and when they inevitably fail, the parent companies like Microsoft shutter them despite being the ones who mandated they make those games. How many studios has Microsoft shuttered in the last few years 3-4?, how many more of their studies have had significant staff layoffs 10-12. All the while it's Xbox brand is declining in market share.


"Hard times create strong men.

Strong men create good times.

Good times create weak men.

And weak men create hard times."


And we're seeing that play out in Europe right now.


That's kinda of nothing saying. It effectively just says everything is a loop. Good times create bad times which create good times which create bad times ad infinitum.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2026, 16:18
#23
12 Apr 2026, 16:18#23

've been hearing doom mongering about Europe since the 90's. It's getting old at this point


Well it might have been a bit premature in the 1990s, but since the financial crisis Europe has been in trouble. Britain dropped from the fourth ranked economy to the sixth….France from the fifth to the seventh.


Here’s the stunner, total growth adjusted for inflation since the financial crisis:


A well-documented comparison:

  1. 2008 ? 2023
  2. EU: +13.5%
  3. U.S.: +87%

?? This is the key divergence period (post–financial crisis


ThatChat comparison is in real GDP, inflation adjusted, which could have a slight effect on the numbers…but not the trend. The European financial crisis had an effect….but the biggest difference is European population was almost flat since 2000 and the US grew by 20%.


They both had similar immigration benefits over the period. But in the US that was matched by a similar existing population growth. In Europe the existing population has actually gone negative.


Is it a testosterone issue one wonders.


It’s concerning to see the old world dropping so far behind, but honestly I don’t think there is anyway to reverse the trends. More rules from Brussels will solve nothing. While Europe has been agonizing over social issues, Asia and the USA have been building the 21st Century economy.


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Apr 2026, 18:00
#24
12 Apr 2026, 18:00#24

"You're not actually going to respond to the points I made are you."


No, I'm not.


I don't have the time or the energy to get dragged down into why every Ubisoft game fails and results in Europe's biggest game publisher dunking 96% in market cap.


You can blame various things for each failure but in the end the common factor is the culture of the company. A culture that got woke and went broke.


Disney had the balls to turn the bus around, I doubt Ubisoft will.





sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
12 Apr 2026, 21:45
#25
12 Apr 2026, 21:45#25

The Tech sector has gone wrong for the EU. If the EU had its own Tech Sector, the GDP growth rate between the US and the EU would be closer.


The UK was hit hard by the 2009 Financial crash that was caused by America. However, it exposed that the UK was too dependent on one sector.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2026, 21:58
#26
12 Apr 2026, 21:58#26

I’m putting it down to testosterone.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
13 Apr 2026, 06:22
#27
13 Apr 2026, 06:22#27

Europe is toast. Decades of dismissing their own best interests to align with the US' best interests have slowly and surely destroyed European countries.


Even liberals on this board are now forced to admit.


Too late and too many obstacles like multiple languages and national governments to overcome.




Remember, peeps, the official language of liberals' servants is well, that migrants are threatening each european country's social fabric as they can not assimilate.


Yet it is conceded that the intrinsic cultural diversity between european countries is a weakness. Funny when you think that most of the migrants are likely to speak globlish, more likely than a very large number of european citizens.


There only is one big replacement: european populations by white people. White people speak no european language, they speak anglo american. White people do not believe in christ, they are judeo-christian and more.


Big replacement in progress.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
13 Apr 2026, 13:07
#28
13 Apr 2026, 13:07#28

No, I'm not.


I don't have the time or the energy to get dragged down into why every Ubisoft game fails and results in Europe's biggest game publisher dunking 96% in market cap.


I didn't ask you too. I asked you to provide any evidence that Ubisoft's share value decline is due to European laziness or wokeness.


I also cited a clear example of a game that Ubisoft made that was strongly criticized online before it's release as being woke that turned out to be a commercial success.


In the past I was also able to give another example of a game you described as woke Cyberpunk 2077 (also a European developed game) that a was major commercial success.


If going woke causes you to go broke, then how do you account for those successes.


You can blame various things for each failure but in the end the common factor is the culture of the company. A culture that got woke and went broke.


This is you going, I have an opinion that I can't back up and I'm just going stick my hands in my ears and go la-la-la-la...I can't hear you if anyone challenges me on it. As I said it's an ideology thing, you want to believe wokeness is to blame so that's what your going believe regardless of facts or evidence.


Disney had the balls to turn the bus around, I doubt Ubisoft will.


Ah yes Disney, you're clearly invested in this whole culture wars thing.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Apr 2026, 13:58
#29
13 Apr 2026, 13:58#29

LOL Yes, I'm not going to argue the obvious with you.




Then I asked chat;


Provide me a brief summary of the development and marketing cost of Assassins Creed Shadows.


Response;


Cost


  1. Official: $110–120 million+ development budget
  2. Real total (with marketing etc.): likely significantly higher (not fully disclosed)


Revenue / Sales


  1. Generated $180+ million revenue
  2. About 5 million players, but includes subscriptions (not all full sales)


Bottom line


  1. Made money (revenue > $180M)
  2. But:
  3. Profitability is unclear due to higher real costs.
  4. Many estimates suggest it may not have fully recouped total investment yet.



You called it a commercial success. So perhaps you need to provide the evidence as to how you got to that conclusion.


Show me the actual figures.


Not that I really care because I did read the articles about the game at the time and it was clearly historical revisionism aimed at appeasing the woke.


I must admit that I find it hilarious how desperate you are to protect the wokies and their failed ideas.


You're here trying to put lipstick on a pig that has lost 96% of its market capital. Talking about how commercially successful their titles are...meanwhile they're having to gut studios and layoff staff like nobody's business.


I'm actually laughing as I type this.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Apr 2026, 14:49
#30
13 Apr 2026, 14:49#30

Anger says he doesn’t own stocks…why would he be good at analyzing stocks? It seems unlikely. I’m trying not to laugh.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Apr 2026, 15:00
#31
13 Apr 2026, 15:00#31

He stopped buy stocks after he invested in Rainbow Flags Inc whose target demographic were bikers.


They tried guilting the bikers into buying those flags but them boys just had too many tattoos of skulls and dragons.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
13 Apr 2026, 15:09
#32
13 Apr 2026, 15:09#32

You called it a commercial success. So perhaps you need to provide the evidence as to how you got to that conclusion.


Show me the actual figures.


From the wikipedia page for Assassins Creed Shadows


According to Ubisoft's fiscal report for its 2025 fiscal year, ending March 31, 2025, Assassin's Creed Shadows has outperformed Assassin's Creed Odyssey in consumer spending to date and achieved the second-highest day-one sales revenue in the history of the franchise, ranking only behind Assassin's Creed Valhalla.


https://staticctf.ubisoft.com/8aefmxkxpxwl/75aGUbWM9kwnQj44Tr7d6H/ce4ca047ddadf45cf1e98cea8d1d7a78/Ubisoft_FY25_PR_English_vfinal.pdf


On its half-year 2026 report ending September 30, 2025, Ubisoft reported that Shadows was "overperforming"


https://staticctf.ubisoft.com/8aefmxkxpxwl/52w2Cas6xfQjegpCgP1SZC/b38c338a1bf6f365849a50d2f182d061/Ubisoft_FY26_H1_Earnings_PR_EN_vF.pdf


According to Ubisoft's mid-2025 financial results, Shadows surpassed the 5 million player mark by July 2025 and performed in line with expectations.


How I don't know about you but I don't believe companies set expectations to lose money or just to break even.


https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/07/22/3119685/0/en/Ubisoft-reports-first-quarter-2025-26-sales.html


Ubisofts latest financial report from February this year.

https://staticctf.ubisoft.com/8aefmxkxpxwl/2fF3sBktllOX6jrLXUgKci/64d1bdb0998fd5403b32e5329ec01c6c/Ubisoft_FY26_Q3_PR_EN.pdf


It doesn't specifically mention Assassins Creed Shadows but it does described the Assassins Creed brand as over performing. It's unlikely this would be the case if the latest title in the series was underperforming.


Furthermore we can also see from Steam's most played list, Assassins Creed Shadows achieved the highest ever number of peak players recorded by any title in the Assassins Creed Franchise.


Ubisoft didn't actually release sales figures, but from the information out there it's very hard to argue the game wasn't successful.


Not that I really care because I did read the articles about the game at the time and it was clearly historical revisionism aimed at appeasing the woke.


I must admit that I find it hilarious how desperate you are to protect the wokies and their failed ideas.


No it was just fake outrage from people invested in culture wars. As I said the Japanese themselves really didn't care about the female and black lead characters.


I noticed you didn't reply to me about Cyberpunk 2077. Tell me did those publications you read, also call Cyberpunk 2077 woke as well. Because I do recall you labelling that as woke. It went on to sell a whopping 35 million copies.


You're here trying to put lipstick on a pig that has lost 96% of its market capital. Talking about how commercially successful their titles are...meanwhile they're having to gut studios and layoff staff like nobody's business.


I'm not putting lipstick on anything. I'm simply challenging you to back up your claim that Ubisoft's share value declined because they are either lazy Europeans or because they are woke.


If go woke, go broke is a real thing how do you explain numerous titles like Cyberpunk 2077, Baldur's Gate 3, the last of God of War games that were labelled as woke yet sold huge numbers?


Yes Ubisoft are having to make cuts and lay off stay, but so are other numerous others studios and publishers as I mentioned for a myriad of well publicized reasons.


I'm actually laughing as I type this.


That isn't an argument.


You claim Ubisoft are typical of Europe, citing effective laziness and wokeness as problems yet you can't back it up in anyway other that repeating something we don't disagree on that Ubisofts share value is down. You ignored the rest of the European game industry which is actually undergoing growth, ignored global issues with the game industry that's hit publishers and developers world wide very hard and you ignore or dismiss the articles that cite problems specific to Ubisoft. You also wasted time trying to argue with the assistance of A.I that Asia has overtaken Europe when it comes to publishing games to indicate some sort of European decline in the industry which is an ignorance of the reality that Asia has always dominated the games publishing industry, something anyone with the slightly familiarity with the gaming industry would know as common knowledge.



Go woke go broke is a catchy phrase, but it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
13 Apr 2026, 15:22
#33
13 Apr 2026, 15:22#33

I'm still not seeing the figures that specifically detail a commercial success.


Flop<unviable<break even<viable<commercial success


You made the claim, now show me the numbers.


Perhaps you'll get where I'm going with this. Perhaps not.



— END OF THREAD —

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