Well, can we at least agree that for Bozo to show a net profit on Operation Epic Fail, he'll need Iran to revert to the Obama deal (the one he tore up) and get them to pay him $100bn?
Oh and he'll also need his former European allies to magically forget that he has behaved like a complete dick.
I don't see how he possibly breaks even. Tell us how you think he might? Paint us a best-scenario picture.
Again you absolute clown of a man... do you really think this constant deflection to topics completely irrelevant from the topic under discussion is any sort of properly way of arguing a point. You wouldn't last a day in an under 16's debating club.
No deflection.. .some countries might have the right to opine on world affairs. Countries that were cozy with the Nazis, were run by terrorists for 30 years blowing up old men and horses and then became a tax haven……have no right to criticize anybody, let alone the country that’s funding their government spending.
You don't know that. Yes it may have hurt Iran's economy now, but reports say this deal included a waiver to allow Iran to sell it's oil. It's also unclear if some of Iran's frozen sanctions will be unfrozen and Iran is talking about service fees applying being charged to allow ships through the straights. Iran may make up those loses in a matter of months.
There will never be service fees. They have to rebuild much of their military and if they haven’t been damaged, why were they whining about the US paying for the damage…you uneducated buffoon.
Again moaning about Europe when this mess had nothing to do with them. All Trumpian American has done is insulted everyone and offered the world endless stupidity, incompetence, arrogance and avoidance of responsibility.
It had nothing to do with Europe, because Europe is no longer a global player trying to deal with global affairs. But it is allied with the country that has provided the largest contribution to its defence and refused to help. Disgusting.
Oh and he'll also need his former European allies to magically forget that he has behaved like a complete dick.
Remember when the media were feverishly reporting that Charles might cancel his visit….he didn’t. The US has to do nothing they will all come hat in hand, as quietly as they can…..hahaha!
Donald Trump has so far achieved none of the stated regime change and nuclear disarmament goals he laid out when the war was launched with Israel on 28 February. The achievement he advertised overnight – “Ships of the World, start your engines. Let the oil flow!” – was a matter of claiming credit for fixing a problem his war had caused.
No deflection.. .some countries might have the right to opine on world affairs. Countries that were cozy with the Nazis, were run by terrorists for 30 years blowing up old men and horses and then became a tax haven……have no right to criticize anybody, let alone the country that’s funding their government spending.
100% a deflection. And also rubbish. But aside from which does anyone else here find it ironic that in a recent thread you accused me of using of repeating a phrase three times when how many times is it now that have you brought up exploding old men and horses.
There will never be service fees. They have to rebuild much of their military and if they haven’t been damaged, why were they whining about the US paying for the damage…you uneducated buffoon.
Well Iran are claiming they will be charging fees along with Oman and America's credibility has plummeted so low under Trump that Iran are actually the more believable side on this issue. And nice strawman. I never said they were not damaged. But of course if you could use that little peanut you call a brain to think medium to long term, you would understand that income generated from selling oil and charging fees on shipping in the straight will more than offset the cost of the war.
It had nothing to do with Europe, because Europe is no longer a global player trying to deal with global affairs. But it is allied with the country that has provided the largest contribution to its defence and refused to help. Disgusting.
Finally... around about admission it had nothing to do with Europe. Though you couldn't actually bring yourself to do it without throwing out more insults. Come back when you stop throwing your little strop and want to join Europe back in the adults room.
100% a deflection. And also rubbish. But aside from which does anyone else here find it ironic that in a recent thread you accused me of using of repeating a phrase three times when how many times is it now that have you brought up exploding old men and horses.
Tell you what, admit that Ireland should have joined the fight in WW2. That blowing up the Duke and the horses in Hyde Park were cowardly acts. And that Ireland is a tax haven…..and I’ll stop mentioning it. Oh and stop calling the man who commiserated on Hitler’s death a hero.
But of course if you could use that little peanut you call a brain to think medium to long term, you would understand that income generated from selling oil and charging fees on shipping in the straight will more than offset the cost of the war.
Hahaha the Mick thinking long term. Dumbo there is no way the world will tolerate fees on shipping through the Strait (not the Straight moron)…..which you still haven’t grasped is international waters. And the fees from selling oil were always the right of the Iranian people, except after the way they have held the world hostage, customers will be looking for different options and that will affect pricing.
Finally... around about admission it had nothing to do with Europe. Though you couldn't actually bring yourself to do it without throwing out more insults. Come back when you stop throwing your little strop and want to join Europe back in the adults room.
‘Around about admission’…..you Micks do have the gift of the gab. As for joining the Europeans in the adults room…the days Europe could lecture the world are over. If being an adult is you start 2 world wars I think I’ll pass.
Besides which the decline in your car industry, the failure of your energy policies and the resignation of UK defense ministers because they still haven’t committed to properly funding their defense obligations, aren’t very encouraging.
"Well, can we at least agree that for Bozo to show a net profit on Operation Epic Fail, he'll need Iran to revert to the Obama deal (the one he tore up) and get them to pay him $100bn?"
No...not at all.
Rooi...do you think China and some other rogue countries paid market value on Iranian, Venezuelan and Russian oil?
What we still don’t know are the concessions Trump made to get Iran to open the Strait.
Quote from my above post.
The deal is starting to unravel....here..
What was agreed?: Washington and Tehran signed a ceasefire framework to end fighting, reopen the Strait of Hormuz and begin 60-day talks on nuclear and sanctions issues.
Why $300B matters: JD Vance confirmed Iran could access a $300 billion Gulf-backed reconstruction fund if it meets nuclear commitments, drawing sharp domestic and online criticism.
US Vice President JD Vance told CBS News that Iran could ultimately access a $300 billion reconstruction fund, financed by Gulf Arab states, if it commits to verified nuclear concessions. He framed the fund as an incentive for Tehran to give up nuclear weapons ambitions, while critics online questioned the unprecedented scale — up to six times Iran’s annual budget — and accused the Trump administration of contradicting earlier promises of no payouts. The fund’s size and conditionality have become a flashpoint in US domestic debate even as the ceasefire framework moves forward. Raw Story + 2
Can we talk about the scale of problems that are going to arise from spending 300 billion? This is 500%-600% larger than the entire annual budget of the Iranian govt. It is one year of Iranian GDP *of the ENTIRE COUNTRY.* This is insane.
Karl Rohe,Statistics Professor
Analysts warn the deal addresses symptoms, not root causes, and could simply pause hostilities while leaving Iran’s regional influence and military capacity intact.
The deal with the Islamic Republic of Iran is now complete. Congratulations to all. I hereby fully authorise the toll-free opening of the Strait of Hormuz, and, simultaneously herewith, authorise the immediate removal of the United States naval blockade. Ships of the world, start your engines. Let the oil flow.
Donald Trump
************************
Ignore Trump’s bluster; he was desperate for an off-ramp and found one that will lower oil prices at the pump. Don’t get too comfortable—there’s still a long way to go, and it’s uncertain whether Iran will abandon its nuclear program.
He gave up on his promise of no payouts, leaving no doubt about who held the leverage in this deal.
From the start of the war through all the negotiations, Trump has been molded by the rogue regime. Iran skillfully played him to their advantage, and he missed the chance to land the knockout blow.
He’ll be shouting and pumping his fists in triumph, convinced of his victory, while his fanboys eagerly believe him and soak up every word he says.
Europe didn't start this war, it wasn't consulted about it and it wasn't involved in the negotiations.
Fact....Europe was never consulted but copped the blame from Trump when things fell apart.
Fact.....Iran stands to benefit $300 billion....what's the USA's financial benefit?
S B
By the way whatever you, write .on site is B S based on a desperate effort to distort reality and my assumptions above is reflecting facts you .in desperation .ignore,.
You have never been capable of think about anything - ymou have been brainwashed into idiocy,
Tell you what, admit that Ireland should have joined the fight in WW2. That blowing up the Duke and the horses in Hyde Park were cowardly acts. And that Ireland is a tax haven…..and I’ll stop mentioning it. Oh and stop calling the man who commiserated on Hitler’s death a hero.
Absolutely nothing to do with the Strait of Hormuz. Still deflecting.
Hahaha the Mick thinking long term. Dumbo there is no way the world will tolerate fees on shipping through the Strait (not the Straight moron)…..which you still haven’t grasped is international waters. And the fees from selling oil were always the right of the Iranian people, except after the way they have held the world hostage, customers will be looking for different options and that will affect pricing.
And how pray tell is the world going stop them? I seen a news report a few weeks back, the money individual countries and companies would giving to Iran (At the time was assumed to be like $2 million per ship) isn't that significant. Obviously when you add them all up it's a lot of money going to Iran . The analyst concluded it was actually a negligible price to pay for companies and they would be willing to pay it provided they don't get sanctioned for doing so. So what it really comes down to would the cost (time, effort, resources, financial cost and risk to like) of stopping Iran from charging the fees be far more hassle that actually paying the fees. China is not going to do anything if they charge them, the US has demonstrated it either doesn't have the capacity or the willpower to keep the Strait open and Europe's not interested... so who's going to force them to stop?
‘Around about admission’…..you Micks do have the gift of the gab. As for joining the Europeans in the adults room…the days Europe could lecture the world are over. If being an adult is you start 2 world wars I think I’ll pass.
This is absolutely galling. Europe is not lecturing the US on anything, it's the contrary the 2nd Trump administration has done nothing but lecture Europe since it got back into official in addition to insulting them and basically treat them like they are colonies to be ordered around.
And look at this deranged gobble gook gibberish mental gymnastics you are doing... raging at Europe for not going to war with American... and also now raging that Europe started too many wars.
Besides which the decline in your car industry, the failure of your energy policies and the resignation of UK defense ministers because they still haven’t committed to properly funding their defense obligations, aren’t very encouraging.
Absolutely nothing to do with Trump's stupid war of folly. Wail at Europe all you want... we didn't elect Trump. The present situation with Iran is a mess of your own doing. Deal with it.
Tell you what, admit that Ireland should have joined the fight in WW2. That blowing up the Duke and the horses in Hyde Park were cowardly acts. And that Ireland is a tax haven…..and I’ll stop mentioning it. Oh and stop calling the man who commiserated on Hitler’s death a hero.
Absolutely nothing to do with the Strait of Hormuz. Still deflecting.
Agreed nothing to do with Iran, but everything to do with an Irishman’s moral right to criticize the US. Step up and admit you have accepted Ireland’s mistakes and your own misplaced hero worship. Every South African on here admits Apartheid was wrong..,do the same.
And how pray tell is the world going stop them
The same way it did this time, by blockading their oil.
And look at this deranged gobble gook gibberish mental gymnastics you are doing... raging at Europe for not going to war with American... and also now raging that Europe started too many wars.
No Mick, nobody asked Europe to go to war….they were asked to help clear the Strait of mines. Comparing that to WW1 and WW2 is the real mental gymnastics, oops you didn’t stick the landing.
Absolutely nothing to do with Trump's stupid war of folly. Wail at Europe all you want... we didn't elect Trump. The present situation with Iran is a mess of your own doing. Deal with it.
But limiting Iran’s path to nuclear weapons? Not important. Well in any case we will deal and at much less cost than the increases coming in Europe’s military budget….there will be a price to pay. And other than ASML there is almost nothing we need from Europe.
Threatening to nuke Iran is a way to help prevent Iran from having a nuke?... Sure... Any country in Iran's shoes right now would be thinking: "What is the quickest way to get nukes...."
It will be ironic if America is the 2nd country to get hit by a nuclear bomb, given they are the only country to have actually used nukes in a war....Sweet Justice, like "Justice for Bakkies".
Iran is now certainly going to get a nuke. The orange pig does not have much longer on this earth, but he may see a nuclear-armed Iran. And now the Arabs hate America, now more than ever. They are tired of just burning American flags; they want the meat and potatoes.
America has bullied Iran, but make no mistake, they will get revenge.
America bombed schools, threatened to nuke Iran multiple times, threatened to destroy civil energy and water, threatened to put them back into the caveman era. Iran knows that once they have nukes, America will not dare mess with them. (As other countries have seen).
Americans are seen as garbage in the world. These people actually democratically elected Trump, and twice...They have a Tech sector, but that is mostly the product of the old America.
California has 45% poll ratings to cede from America, and this continues to grow. America could split, and all that will be left of America are the Red Neck States of America,
Indeed, a nation dumb enough to vote this fool in twice deserves him and all the chaotic carnage he brings with him.
As for the European ;leaders who told him what he can do with his mindless, poorly executed and self-serving warmongering, well done to all of them.
I'm quite sure Europe will normalize their relations with the USA in time to come, but not while this clown is president.
It is very funny. The ease liberals are gliding on things. It is incredible.
There is nothing. It is empty. Only an agreement to a cease fire. The positions of each are so divergent war may trigger any time.
It is very funny oil prices are going down when the demand to refill the oil strategical reserves is very high. Every country will try to replenish them before the conflict kicks.
The risk is so high.
Dehumanisation and trade over all. The Iranians got finger pointed at them because of their repression of illegal demonstrations. They are offered billions of dollars. And funded by the Arabic gold states whose infrastructures got destroyed because they host US military bases.
Remember, peeps, liberals are harping they want nationalistic programs for their countries.
Yet, if ever all those dictators in the middle east were ousted, and liberal governments were installed instead, they could not be friendly to the US.
These dudes, they paid the US for protection. The US destabilised the region. The countries got hit because they hosted US bases. The US failed to provide them with the protection they paid for. The US boasted about the destruction on Iran. And now, these tyrannies will fund the rebuilding of Iran.
All these dudes are in the pocket of the US. They do not represent the national interest of their countries.
And here is a big argument against immigration from these countries. That liberals can not make but which is core.
A fraction of the populations of these countries will want to take revenge. They know that their dictators are maintained in power to serve the US best interests. They can not oust their dictators because the US prop them up.
Liberals can not say it but accepting people so mistreated is a high danger. Some of them will cross the line and take revenge.
But liberals can not tell it, they want to picture themselves as a positive force in humanity.
That is the liberal way. Liberals do as they are.
Agreed nothing to do with Iran, but everything to do with an Irishman’s moral right to criticize the US. Step up and admit you have accepted Ireland’s mistakes and your own misplaced hero worship. Every South African on here admits Apartheid was wrong..,do the same.
Tell when you criticize Éamon de Valera on the grounds that he offered condolences to the German representative in Ireland on the death of his countries head of state as a mater of diplomatic protocol... are you going offer the same criticism of people who hold George Washington in high esteem. This is a man after all who spent his life owning slaves and when he died had over 300 slaves and who is known to have tolerated violence against slaves to keep them inline if the carrot approach didn't work. I mean what's sort of moral standing would anyone have if they thought well of George Washington... I guess all American's are deeply ashamed of him right? Or perhaps say Churchill for his role in Gallipoli and the famine in India. Or how about oh say Donald Trump when he supposedly spotted many fine people in that crowd of far right protesters in Charlotteville's, you know the crowd brandishing countless Swastika's, confederate and white supremacist flag? But go ahead and lecture me on morals while you sing the praises of an indicted war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu.
The fact of that matter is you have you can't defend your own position and you know it... so you're trying to attack my moral character to try to discredit me as a way of discrediting my argument because you have no other way.
The same way it did this time, by blockading their oil.
So America will blockade Iran, Iran will blockade the Strait again and we go back to the stupidity of the last few weeks. That's your plan?
No Mick, nobody asked Europe to go to war….they were asked to help clear the Strait of mines. Comparing that to WW1 and WW2 is the real mental gymnastics, oops you didn’t stick the landing.
What the glorious and all mighty US of A can't clear a few mines on it's own?, I believe the Iranian's only planted about a dozen or so, how shit is the US Navy!. And I thought the US didn't need anything from Europe. Europe refused because even doing that risked roping them into a war they wanted no part of. Again the cry baby American's need to face up to the consequence of their own stupid actions here.
But limiting Iran’s path to nuclear weapons? Not important.
Limiting Iran's path to nuclear weapons... like oh say some sort of Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action?
Well in any case we will deal and at much less cost than the increases coming in Europe’s military budget….there will be a price to pay.
Europe had already long concluded with the Ukraine war that they needed to massively increase defence spending and are already doing doing so for the most part. However it's the American's are the ones who are going to lose out as that massive increase in defence spending will be primarily spent in Europe this time. European defence manufacturers stocks have soared over the last year and are far outperforming their US counterparts. But even if Europe wanted to heavily invest in US military tech this war has demonstrated the US doesn't have the stock or the reliability to provide them.
And other than ASML there is almost nothing we need from Europe.
Except apparently mine sweepers!!! ROFL.
Trump is already starting to admit the deal is very limited. J.D. Vance has said that their is talk of a 300 billion deal as well.
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You lot assume that the main objective of the deal is to open the strait...typical...we don't know what the actual objectives were...we probably never will. Check the oil markets in a few months... particularly what Iran and Russia are getting for their oil, who's buying it and what everyone else are paying in comparison and the compare that proportionally to the status quo before the Trump presidency...
Snark, Biden got 13 soldiers killed withdrawing from Afghanistan.....
It’s pretty obvious who had leverage throughout the war—Iran walked away with $300 billion, while America got zip, zero, nothing, and was left with an economic drain of over $100 billion.
By the way, the $1.7B handout under Obama pales in comparison to the $300B orchestrated under Trump.
DbDraad
Hall Of Famer
26,268 posts
Jun 16, 2026, 22:13
You lot assume that the main objective of the deal is to open the strait...typical...we don't know what the actual objectives were...we probably never will.
--------
Ha, Ha. A president is meant to explain the goals to the parliament of government and to the public.
So you are suggesting without a goal, it is impossible to measure what the impact was. Great idea, why plan anything?
So, what exactly has Trump accomplished or gained so far in his war, with the greatest army at his disposal?....anyone?
sweet vokall
He's spent billions of dollars replacing the old moderate leader with a young hard-liner, he's bombed a girls school, he's pushed the world into a recession and he's alienated his European allies.
That's what he's achieved.
& the ballsuproom
Ha, Ha. A president is meant to explain the goals to the parliament of government and to the public
& getting approval from Congress .
Snark, Biden got 13 soldiers killed withdrawing from Afghanistan.....
Donald Trump: Negotiated and signed the 2020 Doha Agreement, which set a timeline for the final withdrawal of U.S. forces.
"Donald Trump: Negotiated and signed the 2020 Doha Agreement, which set a timeline for the final withdrawal of U.S. forces."
Duh, we all know that...the chaotic, incompetent and idiotic way they did it was criminal though... indefensible...worse than South African Defense Force fleeing the Congo.... pathetic...a rook greenhorn like Hegseth does better...by far.
By
John Haltiwanger
Iran hostage crisis
A blindfolded American hostage with his hands tied up is brought out on to the compound of the embassy by students who stormed the embassy and took all the diplomatic staff hostage in front of the international media on 11th November 1979 in Tehran, IranKaveh Kazemi/Getty Images
Jan 7, 2020, 4:46 PM CT
In 1980, as 52 hostages were being held by Iranian students at the US Embassy in Tehran, a 34-year-old Donald Trump advocated for a US invasion of Iran.
In an October 1980 interview with gossip columnist Rona Barrett, uncovered on Tuesday by Brookings Institution amid an escalating crisis with Iran, Trump said the US "should really be a country that gets the respect of other countries."
"The Iranian situation is a case in point," he ad That they hold our hostages is just absolutely, and totally ridiculous. That this country sits back and allows a country such as Iran to hold our hostages, to my way of thinking, is a horror, and I don't think they'd do it with other countries. I honestly don't think they'd do it with other countries."
Barrett replied: "Obviously you're advocating that we should have gone in there with troops, et cetera, and brought our boys out like Vietnam."
To which Trump said: "I absolutely feel that, yes. I don't think there's any question, and there is no question in my mind. I think right now we'd be an oil-rich nation, and I believe that we should have done it, and I'm very disappointed that we didn't do it, and I don't think anybody would have held us in abeyance."
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According to historians Brendan Simms and Charlie Laderman, as cited by Brookings, this was Trump's first known comment on US foreign policy.
The Iranian hostage crisis began in November 1979 amid the Islamic revolution that saw Iran transition from being a pro-Western puppet to an oppressive, theocratic state and adversary of the US. Initially, 66 American hostages were taken, but that number dwindled t0 52 by July 1980 as hostages were released for various reasons. The crisis lasted for 444 days, ending on January, 20, 1981, the same day Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.
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Though the US did not launch a full-scale invasion over the crisis, it did launch a disastrous military operation in April 1980 meant to rescue the hostages that failed miserably and resulted in deaths of eight US service members. Former President Jimmy Carter's handling of the crisis is often cited as one of the primary reasons he did not win reelection.
The 1980 interview in many ways foreshadowed the tone of Trump's future presidential campaign and general stance toward Iran as commander-in-chief.
While running for president in 2016, Trump repeatedly said the US no longer had the world's respect, contending that he would bring it back. Since he entered the White House, however, polls have repeatedly suggested that Trump has eroded America's global credibility.
On January 3, Trump ordered a drone strike that killed Iran's most important military leader, Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, in Baghdad. The US considered Soleimani a terrorist, and he'd been linked with the deaths of hundreds of US service members. But questions have still been raised by many in Washington regarding the proportionality of the strike, and whether it was worth the unfolding consequences.
Iran has fucked with America enough...this ends now.
Lol... Marco the Minister who draws a parallel between a man on the moon with cagefighting on a lawn.
Now here we have total desperation:
Tell when you criticize Éamon de Valera on the grounds that he offered condolences to the German representative in Ireland on the death of his countries head of state as a mater of diplomatic protocol... are you going offer the same criticism of people who hold George Washington in high esteem. This is a man after all who spent his life owning slaves and when he died had over 300 slaves and who is known to have tolerated violence against slaves to keep them inline if the carrot approach didn't work. I mean what's sort of moral standing would anyone have if they thought well of George Washington... I guess all American's are deeply ashamed of him right? Or perhaps say Churchill for his role in Gallipoli and the famine in India. Or how about oh say Donald Trump when he supposedly spotted many fine people in that crowd of far right crowd in Charlotteville's, you know the crowd brandish countless Swastika's, confederate and white supremacist flag? But go ahead and lecture me on morals while you sing the praises of an indicated war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu.
Okay let’s take them case by case. Washington was a slave owner, totally normal in 1776. You can’t judge him without judging the whole culture. Voltaire was a slave owner.
Churchill made a very poor military decision against advice about Gallipoli. Many men died….it affected his reputation until he became the man that led the cause against Germany
Oh of course Donald Trump …he said there were some fine people in the crowd….there were….there were also people with Swastikas. Just another false connection.
And Netanyahu…..of course you would accuse him while ignoring all the Iranians killed and tortured by that regime. And the word is an indicted war criminal…not an indicated war criminal idiot. And given you don’t know the word you probably don’t no the implication…..it’s an accusation which starts the process of proof, not proof.
So you are trying to say that these alleged offenses are equivalent to killing 6 million people in cold blood, so de Valera was right to sympathize with the death of a man, who by then was known to have ordered the death of millions of Jews? Not by error, not by incompetence, not as an unintended by product of any action…..but by searching for them and then killing them deliberately in gas chambers, men women and children.
Your sense of moral equivalence is puerile.
"Lol... Marco the Minister who draws a parallel between a man on the moon with cagefighting on a lawn."
Whoosh!
"Your sense of moral equivalence is puerile."
Indeed...and it's getting worse...and I'm not talking about Stav... it's everyone.
Duh, we all know that...the chaotic, incompetent and idiotic way they did it was criminal though... indefensible...worse than South African Defense Force fleeing the Congo.... pathetic...a rook greenhorn like Hegseth does better...by far.
Dradd are you claiming Biden planned all of the details for the withdrawal from Afghanistan?
If that is true no wonder Biden was falling asleep so often, poor old bugger not only has to run the country but plan every action the American military makes with no help from the supposed experts at the pentagon
What is the point in having generals and the like in the army if all they do is implement Bidens military plans and cannot add their own ideas into the mix.
You really should take a step back sometimes and have a wee think about what you type.
If there is any blame for how it was done that fall fully on the American military not Biden.
Are you saying it would have gone different if Trump had planned it or would it suddenly be the military's fault it was a fuck up if your messiah had been in charge?
